Italy and Hungary oppose warfare supply to Ukraine

[TagliatelliMonster]

Google Chrome can translate entire articles.

Btw...here a source in English.

That clip only talks about Hungary.
We already know Orban is a Putin worshipper. Nothing new there.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

This war is really threatening the EU stability.

It is something shameful how they are basically violating the constitutions of many European states...by trying to normalize an attack on Russia.
It is disgusting.

They are honorless.

More bluster.

No constitutions are being violated.

 

[Altfish]

Source

Italia e Ungheria frenano l’Europa sulle armi all’Ucraina

Respinta la richiesta di Borrell di consentire attacchi in Russia Tajani: “Ogni Paese decida per sé”

www.google.com

I am sorry for the caviar-eating élites in Brussels...but, unlike the USA we need to fund our universal public healthcare system, instead of wasting money on idiocies.

Compris, Belgique?
@TagliatelliMonster ❤

Surprise, surprise ... Putin's friends back Russia.
Did you know that the Pope's a catholic?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Surprise, surprise ... Putin's friends back Russia.
Did you know that the Pope's a catholic?

I know, right....

But it's even a blatant misrepresentation.
Italy, unlike Hungary, doesn't oppose sending military packages to Ukraine at all.
What they actually oppose is for Ukraine to use Italian weapons to attack Russia on Russian soil.

All countries used to be of that opinion.
It's only rather recently that countries started turning around on that. There are still many that that don't allow it.
There are also countries that not yet allow it only for specific types of weapons.

So really, this stance of Italy is barely news at all. More importantly, Italy's stance is heavily misrepresented in the OP

 

[Estro Felino]

More bluster.

No constitutions are being violated.

Si, monsieur.
Article 11 of the Italian Constitution and article 26 of the German Constitution.

 

[Estro Felino]

All countries used to be of that opinion.
It's only rather recently that countries started turning around on that.

Because there is a huge difference between defense and offense (attack).

There are still many that that don't allow it.
There are also countries that not yet allow it only for specific types of weapons.

So really, this stance of Italy is barely news at all. More importantly, Italy's stance is heavily misrepresented in the OP

It's not misinterpreted. It just that we are a US colony so we are not really free to express ourselves.

 

[Estro Felino]

That clip only talks about Hungary.
We already know Orban is a Putin worshipper. Nothing new there.

What about PM Fico?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Si, monsieur.
Article 11 of the Italian Constitution and article 26 of the German Constitution.

Well, for Germany if you ask, I am pretty sure that the government and courts will answer that Germany is not involved in a war of aggression on the part of Germany:
26.1 (1) Acts tending to and undertaken with intent to disturb the peaceful relations between nations, especially to prepare for a war of aggression, shall be unconstitutional. They shall be criminalised.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

If you could speak Italian, you would have read that that's exactly what the Italian article says.
...

Italy and Hungary oppose warfare supply to Ukraine

That is not the same. Italy opposes the usage of weapons in Russia, not the delivery of weapons to Ukraine.
So you are saying 2 things that contradict easy other and only one of them can be true.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, for Germany if you ask, I am pretty sure that the government and courts will answer that Germany is not involved in a war of aggression on the part of Germany:
26.1 (1) Acts tending to and undertaken with intent to disturb the peaceful relations between nations, especially to prepare for a war of aggression, shall be unconstitutional. They shall be criminalised.

If they provide weapons meant to attack the Russian territory, they are violating article 26.
And I can demonstrate it in any German courtroom.
And the Constitutional Court of Karlsruhe will agree.

 

[Estro Felino]

Italy and Hungary oppose warfare supply to Ukraine

That is not the same. Italy opposes the usage of weapons in Russia, not the delivery of weapons to Ukraine.
So you are saying 2 things that contradict easy other and only one of them can be true.

Maybe you don't understand.
If Mr. Zely uses those weapons (meant to be used as defense warfare) to attack Russia, Italy is violating article 11 of its Constitution.
And all future supplies will have to be cancelled.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Si, monsieur.
Article 11 of the Italian Constitution.

That is your opinion. Here is another one:
"...
Lastly, Article 11 includes a general directive to the Italian political and institutional bodies in their international relations, requiring them to actively pursue a pacifist policy and absolutely prohibiting any involvement in wars of an offensive nature or as means ‘for the settlement of international disputes’.[56] Yet, this does not exclude participation in wars waged to defend the homeland and the territory of another State. The Constitution does not explicitly clarify whether or not it is allowed to participate in wars to defend other States, thus opening up the space for the identification of an implicit authorization through international law.[57]
In the silence of the Constitution, the concept of ‘defensive warfare’ should be defined in light of the international rules governing the use of force and those provisions regulating the exercise of individual or collective self-defence. The ‘opening’ of the Constitution to international law allows for an integrative interpretation of its provisions, like the recognition of the ‘natural right’ to self-defence or defensive support in certain circumstance.[58] What is more, in the present geopolitical situation, defence of the Homeland under Article 52 of the Constitution as ‘a sacred duty for every citizen’, cannot but include defensive alliances between States, with all the related consequences in terms of mutual assistance in the event of an invasion by a third country.[59] ..."

Article 11 of the Italian Constitution and the war in Ukraine: The constant dialogue between Constitutional and International Law - QIL QDI

Questions of International Law

www.qil-qdi.org

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

If they provide weapons meant to attack the Russian territory, they are violating article 26.
And I can demonstrate it in any German courtroom.
And the Constitutional Court of Karlsruhe will agree.

Then actually do so. Until that is the case, it is no relevant what you believe or not, as there is no actual verdict.

 

[Estro Felino]

That is your opinion. Here is another one:
"...
Lastly, Article 11 includes a general directive to the Italian political and institutional bodies in their international relations, requiring them to actively pursue a pacifist policy and absolutely prohibiting any involvement in wars of an offensive nature or as means ‘for the settlement of international disputes’.[56] Yet, this does not exclude participation in wars waged to defend the homeland and the territory of another State. The Constitution does not explicitly clarify whether or not it is allowed to participate in wars to defend other States, thus opening up the space for the identification of an implicit authorization through international law.[57]
In the silence of the Constitution, the concept of ‘defensive warfare’ should be defined in light of the international rules governing the use of force and those provisions regulating the exercise of individual or collective self-defence. The ‘opening’ of the Constitution to international law allows for an integrative interpretation of its provisions, like the recognition of the ‘natural right’ to self-defence or defensive support in certain circumstance.[58] What is more, in the present geopolitical situation, defence of the Homeland under Article 52 of the Constitution as ‘a sacred duty for every citizen’, cannot but include defensive alliances between States, with all the related consequences in terms of mutual assistance in the event of an invasion by a third country.[59] ..."

Article 11 of the Italian Constitution and the war in Ukraine: The constant dialogue between Constitutional and International Law - QIL QDI

Questions of International Law

www.qil-qdi.org

I see you haven't studied jurisprudence.
Because if you had, you would understand that the Italian Constitution cannot be interpreted, since it's Napoleonic legal system.
So that article is wrong.

No wonder...in the Anglo-Saxon world any law is interpretable.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Maybe you don't understand.
If Mr. Zely uses those weapons (meant to be used as defense warfare) to attack Russia, Italy is violating article 11 of its Constitution.
And all future supplies will have to be cancelled.

Look for the answer I have already given as per another opinion than yours.

 

[Estro Felino]

Then actually do so. Until that is the case, it is no relevant what you believe or not, as there is no actual verdict.

They are already doing that in Germany, don't worry about that.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I see you haven't studied jurisprudence.
Because if you had, you would understand that the Italian Constitution cannot be interpreted, since it's Napoleonic legal system.
So that article is wrong.

No wonder...in the Anglo-Saxon world any law is interpretable.

I really don't care about your private subjective opinions, unless you actually back it up.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

They are already doing that in Germany, don't worry about that.

Please give a link. And state what your role is in it.

 

[Estro Felino]

I really don't care about your private subjective opinions, unless you actually back it up.

The NATO already violates article 11, in fact I can openly insult the NATO...because they openly violate the article 11 of our Constitution.

Giving weapons to Mr. Zely who is attacking Russia is the cherry on the cake of this violation.

And by the way ...in Italy they are already fighting against this violation. Watch this. I guess you are smart enough to understand what "il decreto VIOLA LA COSTITUZIONE" means in English, right?

 

[Estro Felino]

I really don't care about your private subjective opinions, unless you actually back it up.

In your opinion, what does "Italy repudiates war as instrument meant to settle international disputes" mean?

Explain me. I want to be enlightened by your juridical wisdom.