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It's Become Easier To Sue For Malicious Prosecution

Mark Charles Compton

Pineal Peruser
That case was not actually frivolous. That particular McDonald's kept their coffee way too hot and far above corporate standards, it did cause severe burns, and she only sued to pay the part of the medical bills her insurance didn't.
That suit irritated me years back. I used to be able to get 2 coffees on the way to the worksite, drink one on the way, then have a nice hot coffee an hour or more into the job (setup).
After that suit, my 30min. commute was too long to have a hot coffee. A lot of us liked it that way, we knew it was that way. I would never use my legs to carry any hot beverage. Is what it is...

I tend to drink ice coffee these days, so... meh. Good for her on winning against a mega-corp.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Here in penal trials...all jurists wear the black robe. So...the judges, the prosecutors and the lawyers (of the defendant, and of the victim).
The lay people (popular jury) do not...fortunately.
In civil trials...nobody wears it.

The problem is not the black robe. In the US system there is too much distance between defense and accuse.

For me, I've managed to stay out of trouble and tend to avoid having to deal with the law. I just mind my own business and leave others alone, and most of the time, they leave me alone. I rarely have much contact with the police, and they've generally been pretty nice, even when they're writing me a ticket (which hasn't happened in a very long time).

I agree that it's not really the black robe - although it is kind of silly when you really look at it. But at least our lawyers and judges don't wear powdered white wigs.

I'm reminded of the concept of "Miracle, Mystery, and Authority" which was expounded upon in "The Grand Inquisitor" in Dostoevsky's novel The Brothers Karamazov.

Our system relies upon faith, for the most part, along with deference to authority. Any open defiance or anything at all that might shake that faith in the system is viewed as threatening.
 

Mark Charles Compton

Pineal Peruser
Supreme Court makes it easier to sue the police for malicious prosecution
Excerpted...
The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday made it easier to sue police and prosecutors for malicious prosecution. But the decision still leaves in place other barriers to such lawsuits.

At the center of the ruling is a case of diaper rash. Yes, diaper rash.

Larry Thompson was living with his then fiancée (now wife) and their newborn baby when his sister-in-law, who apparently suffered from mental illness, called 911, claiming that Thompson was abusing the baby. When EMT officers arrived, they were admitted to the apartment by the sister-in-law, but Thompson, unaware of her 911 call, told them they must have the wrong address.

The EMT officers left, but returned to the apartment with four New York City police officers. This time Thompson answered the door and refused to admit them unless they had a search warrant. The police then threw Thompson on the floor and handcuffed him while the EMTs examined the baby. The only marks they found were diaper rash, but the baby was taken to the hospital where the diaper rash diagnosis was confirmed.

Thompson, however, was tossed into jail for two days and charged with resisting arrest and obstructing governmental administration. Prosecutors would eventually offer him a plea deal in which his record would eventually be wiped clean, but he refused, and prosecutors subsequently dropped all charges without any explanation.

Thompson sued, alleging malicious prosecution. But under the federal appeals court precedent in New York, Thompson had to prove that his innocence had been "affirmed." The dropping of charges without explanation was not enough.

On Monday, the Supreme Court sided with Thompson in declaring that he did not have to show an "affirmative indication of innocence." The vote was 6-to-3, with three conservative justices — Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett — joining the courts three liberals in the majority.

Justice Kavanaugh wrote the majority opinion, declaring that a plaintiff need only show that his prosecution ended without a conviction, and Thompson did that here.

"This is a welcome development that allows police and prosecutors to be held accountable when they do something wrong," said Georgetown law professor Mary B. McCord, who filed a brief in the case on behalf of some 70 former prosecutors.

Until this decision, in many jurisdictions "it didn't matter that framing an innocent person completely upended their lives," said Amir Ali, who represented Thompson in the Supreme Court. "If the charges were dismissed, there was no redress for the wronged person," unless a court affirmed his innocence.

"I think it's a long overdue ruling," said Michael Bromwich, who has spent years as a prosecutor, a defense lawyer and as inspector general for the U.S. Justice Department. "Prosecutors get away with way too much" when they realize they may not have a case and want to protect law enforcement from liability, he said.

But Bromwich, like other experts, cautioned that bringing these malicious prosecution cases may not be easy.

"This is not an open-the-floodgates" decision, warned McCord. Indeed, the court's opinion specifically remanded Thompson's case back to the lower courts, where other defenses may be raised by law enforcement officials.

As Georgetown University Law professor Paul Butler observes, "These civil cases are tough to win, and when you do win them, the damages are often very small, so it can be very hard to find a lawyer."

He and McCord, both former prosecutors, note, for instance, that there remain other tools that immunize police and prosecutors from being sued.

And as Butler put it, "it's not as if [the Supreme Court's] conservatives suddenly got woke. ... Liberals should take no heart from a methodology based on the understanding of tort law in 1871." Justice Kavanaugh, in his opinion, indicated that the court must start its analysis based on torts available in 1871 because that was the year Congress passed the law authorizing lawsuits against state and local officers who deprive individuals of their rights "under color of state law." But that is not necessarily the understanding of tort law today.

Dissenting from Monday's ruling were conservative Justices Samuel Alito, Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch. Writing for the three, Alito said: "What the court has done is to recognize a novel hybrid claim of uncertain scope that has no basis in the Constitution and is almost certain to lead to confusion."

From what I'm reading here.. Conclusively confirming the stance I've held for 20+ years since I first got caught up in the court system: "Guilty until proven innocent." and only now, a quarter of a millennia later, that they're finally going to uphold the 6th amendment? About time.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
From what I'm reading here.. Conclusively confirming the stance I've held for 20+ years since I first got caught up in the court system: "Guilty until proven innocent." and only now, a quarter of a millennia later, that they're finally going to uphold the 6th amendment? About time.
It's not quite that much progress.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
That suit irritated me years back. I used to be able to get 2 coffees on the way to the worksite, drink one on the way, then have a nice hot coffee an hour or more into the job (setup).
After that suit, my 30min. commute was too long to have a hot coffee. A lot of us liked it that way, we knew it was that way. I would never use my legs to carry any hot beverage. Is what it is...

I tend to drink ice coffee these days, so... meh. Good for her on winning against a mega-corp.
I truly believe if that case irritates you then you either don't know the details and facts of the case or you lack empathy.
 

Mark Charles Compton

Pineal Peruser
I truly believe if that case irritates you then you either don't know the details and facts of the case or you lack empathy.
In this particular situation, the truth would lean towards the oversimplification you proposed as, "lack empathy".

My first sentence is in a particular temporal tense. ;)

If a male friend of mine had experienced the same, I would at first exclaim my sympathy and positive moral support. As soon as they were on the up-and-up, they would receive regular jokes in reference to their painful memories.

Hypothetical eg.
We're eating a meal I cooked. On inferring his opinion on the quality of my cooking he replies, "It's pretty good, but a little burnt."
"Like your balls?!" I exclaim while wearing a poop-eating grin.
...I would probably complain at this hypothetical friend for the effect his court case had on my direct life, but would never say he was not justified, and would probably purport that he deserved more.
*My female friends would be treated entirely differently, the subject would be entirely avoided.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
In this particular situation, the truth would lean towards the oversimplification you proposed as, "lack empathy".

My first sentence is in a particular temporal tense. ;)

If a male friend of mine had experienced the same, I would at first exclaim my sympathy and positive moral support. As soon as they were on the up-and-up, they would receive regular jokes in reference to their painful memories.

Hypothetical eg.
We're eating a meal I cooked. On inferring his opinion on the quality of my cooking he replies, "It's pretty good, but a little burnt."
"Like your balls?!" I exclaim while wearing a poop-eating grin.
...I would probably complain at this hypothetical friend for the effect his court case had on my direct life, but would never say he was not justified, and would probably purport that he deserved more.
*My female friends would be treated entirely differently, the subject would be entirely avoided.
How would you respond if it was an elderly friend who was hospitalized and nearly died?

Hypothetically.
 

Mark Charles Compton

Pineal Peruser
When I receive a rash from coming in contact with poison ivy, I also feel irritation. Merely because it directly affects me. So, I suppose that verifies that I am indeed apathetic because its either 'understand the details' or 'be evil' and I understand the details of both the toxicology of the plant, and the details of the court case...
Thus:

"Am I evil? Yes, I am. Am I evil? I am man!"

 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
In this particular situation, the truth would lean towards the oversimplification you proposed as, "lack empathy".

My first sentence is in a particular temporal tense. ;)

If a male friend of mine had experienced the same, I would at first exclaim my sympathy and positive moral support. As soon as they were on the up-and-up, they would receive regular jokes in reference to their painful memories.

Hypothetical eg.
We're eating a meal I cooked. On inferring his opinion on the quality of my cooking he replies, "It's pretty good, but a little burnt."
"Like your balls?!" I exclaim while wearing a poop-eating grin.
...I would probably complain at this hypothetical friend for the effect his court case had on my direct life, but would never say he was not justified, and would probably purport that he deserved more.
*My female friends would be treated entirely differently, the subject would be entirely avoided.
Do you have any idea how severe those burns were?
 

Mark Charles Compton

Pineal Peruser
Do you have any idea how severe those burns were?
I have a friend who nearly died from the burns he received after trying to drunkenly jump his motorcycle over a raging fire and getting pinned under the bike. Dude gets jokes, he was being a dumbass.

I would never put my coffee in my crotch to hold it, I would never jump a fire on a motorcycle. I see these decisions as foolish, Murphy's Law dictates so.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I have a friend who nearly died from the burns he received after trying to drunkenly jump his motorcycle over a raging fire and getting pinned under the bike. Dude gets jokes, he was being a dumbass.

I would never put my coffee in my crotch to hold it, I would never jump a fire on a motorcycle. I see these decisions as foolish, Murphy's Law dictates so.
So, yeah, back to my point you don't know the details of the case. The lady was so severely burned it required immediate medical attention, and this was due to this particular McDonald's serving coffee that was far too hot, and it caused these burns.
burn-2.jpg
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
For me, I've managed to stay out of trouble and tend to avoid having to deal with the law. I just mind my own business and leave others alone, and most of the time, they leave me alone. I rarely have much contact with the police, and they've generally been pretty nice, even when they're writing me a ticket (which hasn't happened in a very long time).

I agree that it's not really the black robe - although it is kind of silly when you really look at it. But at least our lawyers and judges don't wear powdered white wigs.

I'm reminded of the concept of "Miracle, Mystery, and Authority" which was expounded upon in "The Grand Inquisitor" in Dostoevsky's novel The Brothers Karamazov.

Our system relies upon faith, for the most part, along with deference to authority. Any open defiance or anything at all that might shake that faith in the system is viewed as threatening.

Our system is very different.
Since trials can last up to 10 years...and sometimes more, there is all the time of the world to disprove false allegations.

So sometimes a trial is a double-edged sword.
 
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fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Whether we like or not the extent to which law
protects people from doing stupid things, it is
what it is. Businesses must take precautions
because some customers are dumb.
And this is particularly true when the business is doing something unreasonably and unnecessary dangerous and it is something they have been warned about several times.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
And this is particularly true when the business is doing something unreasonably and unnecessary dangerous and it is something they have been warned about several times.
Exactly.
Pay attention to what customers do.
Because whatever it is, it will continue.
 

Mark Charles Compton

Pineal Peruser
a $25 black cotton robe elevates the denigrated lawyer-politician to a position of considerable honor and respect in our society

I didn't know judges held a positive perception to society. It makes sense, I was merely ignorant due to my own perceptions.

15-20 years back I served 93 days for possessing 6.3 grams of marijuana ($25-30 value on the street) by a judge who was wearing an ankle bracelet for his recent (at the time) cocaine conviction...

All of the FOC hearings involving people I personally know, including the one that costed my father custody rights and 1/2 of his impending pension from GM were what I would consider "shams". Friend of the court is aptly named, because they are no friend of the children.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I didn't know judges held a positive perception to society. It makes sense, I was merely ignorant due to my own perceptions.

15-20 years back I served 93 days for possessing 6.3 grams of marijuana ($25-30 value on the street) by a judge who was wearing an ankle bracelet for his recent (at the time) cocaine conviction...

All of the FOC hearings involving people I personally know, including the one that costed my father custody rights and 1/2 of his impending pension from GM were what I would consider "shams". Friend of the court is aptly named, because they are no friend of the children.
The Friend Of The Court is the only institution
that still enforces debtor's prison. It should be
"Fiend Of The Court".
 
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