It's Begun

[Storm]

Political distinctions, Storm. Insofar as religion is apolitical, we have no argument. The point being that atheists would not create a communist state. Why would we expect them to reject one irrational, imperialistic ideology (religion) only to embrace another (communism - or the more commonly cited Nazism)?

Jackytar

That makes no sense in context. I was telling idea that she was incorrect in saying that all atheists are Communists and anti-theists, she accepted that, and you jumped in saying Communism was just like religion. I pointed out the flaws in that, and now you say you're rebuttting a point I never made. What the hell?

 

[Storm]

Political distinctions, Storm. Insofar as religion is apolitical, we have no argument. The point being that atheists would not create a communist state. Why would we expect them to reject one irrational, imperialistic ideology (religion) only to embrace another (communism - or the more commonly cited Nazism)?

Jackytar

Also, atheists have created Communist states at least twice.

 

[themadhair]

To end the discussion about communism:

Would I reject something I think is, by some considerable distance, the best system of governance we have, namely rule through a democratic republic, for something I regard as having being demonstrated unworkable by history?

In the US, for example, the governance is by democratic republic and not religion. Why the disappearance of religion would change that is beyond me – and I demand an explanation from the claimant.

 

[Storm]

To end the discussion about communism:

I fail to see the relevance.

Would I reject something I think is, by some considerable distance, the best system of governance we have, namely rule through a democratic republic, for something I regard as having being demonstrated unworkable by history?

The claim that all atheists are Communists has already been dropped.

In the US, for example, the governance is by democratic republic and not religion. Why the disappearance of religion would change that is beyond me – and I demand an explanation from the claimant.

Who claimed this?

 

[themadhair]

Who claimed this?

I quoted the relevant portion here.

 

[Jackytar]

That makes no sense in context. I was telling idea that she was incorrect in saying that all atheists are Communists and anti-theists, she accepted that, and you jumped in saying Communism was just like religion. I pointed out the flaws in that, and now you say you're rebuttting a point I never made. What the hell?

I'm saying that politically religion has imperialist goals, just like communism. Communism without imperialism is not communism. If a religion or an individual thereof does not have any political goals then they are apolitical. Who's attacking the straw man here?

And that "tiny minority" you speak of has been instrumental in electing several presidents starting with Ronald Reagan. This happens right here in our supposed open society. Do you think an atheist could be elected president?

Jackytar

 

[Jackytar]

Also, atheists have created Communist states at least twice.

I know nothing of this.

Jackytar

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I know nothing of this.

Jackytar

Stalin's Russia and the People's Republic of China.

Hard to miss.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Except that religion is pretty dedicated to stamping out other religions.

Jackytar

No they're not.

 

[Storm]

I'm saying that politically religion has imperialist goals, just like communism.

But it doesn't. If you don't mean religion as a whole, don't say it. If you do, don't be surprised to be corrected.

And that "tiny minority" you speak of has been instrumental in electing several presidents starting with Ronald Reagan. This happens right here in our supposed open society. Do you think an atheist could be elected president?

I stated quite clearly that I was speaking of numbers of religions, not numbers of adherents. Yes, the imperialist religions have more members, I acknowledged that, too. "Religion" is a great deal more diverse than "Christianity."

 

[Storm]

Also, atheists have created Communist states at least twice.

I know nothing of this.

Jackytar

Stalin's Russia and the People's Republic of China.

Hard to miss.

Indeed.

 

[Jackytar]

Stalin's Russia and the People's Republic of China.

Hard to miss.

Thats a lot of atheists.

Jackytar

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Thats a lot of atheists.

Jackytar

Yep. Also more human rights violations than Roosevelt could shake a stick at.

 

[Father Heathen]

What exactly is wrong with spreading scientific knowledge and secular values, encouraging critical thinking and fighting bigotry, which is what this site claims to do?

 

[Storm]

Nada.

 

[mfrankpdx]

What exactly is wrong with spreading scientific knowledge and secular values, encouraging critical thinking and fighting bigotry, which is what this site claims to do?

It's the antithesis of religious indoctrination.

 

[Storm]

I will say, though, that if they're trying to eradicate religion, that's not a secular value. Secularism is religiously neutral.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

What exactly is wrong with spreading scientific knowledge and secular values, encouraging critical thinking and fighting bigotry, which is what this site claims to do?

Yeah and L. Ron thinks we are from some space aliens. Saying so don't make it so.

 

[Jackytar]

"Religion" is a great deal more diverse than "Christianity."

I suspect the people of Russia and China would say the same regarding diversity.

Jackytar

 

[Storm]

One would hope. What's your point?