Its Good news .

[Moonjuice]

What do you think Matthew? Do we need to be saved to be a Christian?

 

[John1.12]

I do not agree with every Christian in what they believe when it comes to how they represent God; no. That would be silly to do.

I will love them either way, if that is their view. ( I believe that faith and love are paramount to being a Christian)

There are people in this world who believe that God; set up the world for himself; to send half of the earth population into hell to be burned forever and ever ever.

If people believe that that is fine; I do not believe that version of what is presented is true and it is far from the truth.

@Moonjuice Thank you for your response and this is the only thing I can present to you brother thank you for your time.

Hell was not created for man ,but the devil and his angels .

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Moonjuice if you would like to see my presented case this it; you might not believe it or agree and I understand but it is what I believe though. Thank for your comment I really do mean that because there is a lot of that misconception of who God is; and what God is about.

I believe that answer is found in the bible itself; and not for us to listen to the doctrines of men and what they may spouse as the truth. @Jeremiah Ames : The truth is so important to me in my life that it would be to know the truth about God; and who he is and what He is about.

God is a consuming fire; spirit; good; love. He is not someone we human beings can just sit on the couch with he would obliterate our entire surroundings. I believe according to scriptures that explain what God is, I just do not have them right here with me atm.

When it comes to leaving this earth; our souls go to God and not our body. I believe people who are unbelievers are placed outside the Kingdom of God; and believers are placed inside the kingdom of God. (I believe according to scripture 2 resurrections one for unbelievers; one for believers) Also base on Revelation 22.

I do not believe God send unbelievers to hell to be punished forever and ever and ever; I do believe hell/she'ol (the place of the covering of the dead had went to) There was a place for believers; and non believers. I believe according to scriptures of Revelation 22.

When Jesus Christ had died; He went to Hell/She'ol too; and he went and proclaimed a message to those who died in Noahs day. Then was resurrected on the third day by God. I believe according to the scriptures.

I believe that Hell/Sheol - the place for the dead (covered place of the dead where souls went to) - was emptied before on the white throne judgement day in the bible and all the souls with-in came out and were judged and placed where they were to go. Outside or inside of the kingdom of heaven.

I do not believe God send people to hell where they still have their flesh and are being burned and tortured by flames of burning their skin.

That is horrible and a huge big misrepresenting of God.

Jesus Christ I believe has had victory over Sheol/Hell, The Grave, Sin, Death, and Satan, personally. We as believers get to live in freedom to serve willingly to Love God, and to Love others by and through the spirit we have in our lives and it allows us to be thankful and have a relationship with the true and living God ; by and through faith on the Son of God Yeshua Christ who is the truth, the way, the life, and no one has access to the Father except by and through Him. I believe personally.

It is also a personal choice. If you have desires for learning and growing in the information about God and the Lord Jesus Christ or not.

Can I ask you a genuine question?

Have you ever asked an unbeliever what is best for their spiritual wellbeing and means to find interest and support in what fufills them?

What do "you" believe makes you fulfilled?

What are Your values as a Hindu, Wiccan, Jew, or Taoist?

I'm happy that you found your way. Salvation isn't for everyone.

Be blessed....

Something like that?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The' Gospel ' literally means 'good news ' .This is described in a nut shell in 1 cor .15 .1-4

1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Often Christianity is argued against for various reasons ,but negatively .the central message is actually 'good news ' literally.
Good news for the whole world. The message of how Jesus has died for our sins . Its 'good news '. Why do some treat it as bad news . Its a free gift also . You cannot earn it . Its the offer of eternal life.
So it's:
- eternal life ,
- forgiveness of sins ,completely ,past present and future .
- Peace with God
- Justification
- redemption
- Blessed with all spiritual blessings
- Its all a free gift
- cannot be earned
- recieved through faith
- No rituals,pilgrimage, special clothes ,bno joining an organisation , club , ' church ' no practices, no asceticism , to recieve all of the above .
Even if you argue that its not true, I don't believe its sensible to argue that the message ( Gospel ) is negative, or bad news ,if it is indeed true . Which of course I believe it is .
Thoughts?

I don't see much similarity between what you say is in the Gospels and what I actually read in it.

... though I recognize that you certainly aren't the first person I've seen from the tradition that reinterprets the Bible this way.

 

[osgart]

The' Gospel ' literally means 'good news ' .This is described in a nut shell in 1 cor .15 .1-4

1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Often Christianity is argued against for various reasons ,but negatively .the central message is actually 'good news ' literally.
Good news for the whole world. The message of how Jesus has died for our sins . Its 'good news '. Why do some treat it as bad news . Its a free gift also . You cannot earn it . Its the offer of eternal life.
So it's:
- eternal life ,
- forgiveness of sins ,completely ,past present and future .
- Peace with God
- Justification
- redemption
- Blessed with all spiritual blessings
- Its all a free gift
- cannot be earned
- recieved through faith
- No rituals,pilgrimage, special clothes ,bno joining an organisation , club , ' church ' no practices, no asceticism , to recieve all of the above .
Even if you argue that its not true, I don't believe its sensible to argue that the message ( Gospel ) is negative, or bad news ,if it is indeed true . Which of course I believe it is .
Thoughts?

So if I am convinced that this good news is a myth and I have made by best effort to see the truth and found otherwise, is it still good news, or am I bound for condemnation?

 

[MatthewA]

@Moonjuice That is a good question.

In my life at 26 years old there was a void in my heart; and my only though was listening to preachers preach on the youtube; and then after that I made the decision to go and read the bible for myself and find out who Jesus Christ was and what he represented and my life slowly started to be taken from the dark void in my heart into a place of joy; and thankfulness; that has been my experience and believe that God and the Lord Yeshua have changed my life around for the better.

To be saved to the kingdom of God; one needs Christ Jesus who is the way, the truth, the life and no man has access to the Father except by and through him. I believe.

To have a spiritual relationship and connection with the creator is a wonderful experience knowing that you are loved, accepted and that when you Love God; you desire to love others too and not condemn or judge them. I believe.

The old ways die from being hateful and greedy; into having joy and peace by and through the spirit; and to have these things one must believe and have faith; because without faith it is impossible to please God. I believe.

I believe that God desires for all people to come to the knowledge and the truth about the Son of God.

 

[MatthewA]

So if I am convinced that this good news is a myth and I have made by best effort to see the truth and found otherwise, is it still good news, or am I bound for condemnation?

That choice is between you and God friend, osgart.

 

[Moonjuice]

To be honest, Matthew, to me, that first question has no meaning. I have never thought to ask a non-believer what they think is best for their "spiritual wellbeing". I don't know what spiritual wellbeing is, but sounds like an invented construct. Like the apparent need of salvation.

 

[MatthewA]

@Unveiled Artist

what is best for their spiritual wellbeing and means to find interest and support in what fufills them?

What do "you" believe makes you fulfilled?

What are Your values as a Hindu, Wiccan, Jew, or Taoist?

You can tell me you if desire and I will listen.

 

[exchemist]

If all those things are true then I would say everyone needs the good news .

Yes, but then you need to make the case for why you think they are true.

I've never understood the kind of preaching we see in this thread. It seems to consist in cheerfully asserting the virtues of a proposition that has not been accepted by the people being preached to. This kind of preacher seems to overlook the need to convince his audience of the truth of the proposition, before going any further. It's as if they think that, because it is upbeat, nobody will spoil the party by questioning the proposition.

I sometimes wonder, cynically, if they come to places like this as a box-ticking exercise, so they can say they done their bit of evangelising, even though it is actually quite ineffective - and in many cases counterproductive.

 

[MatthewA]

@exchemist : I believe the proper term is subjective.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@Unveiled Artist

what is best for their spiritual wellbeing and means to find interest and support in what fufills them?

What do "you" believe makes you fulfilled?

What are Your values as a Hindu, Wiccan, Jew, or Taoist?

You can tell me you if desire and I will listen.

My question is have you asked these questions of others?

 

[John1.12]

My thoughts (and a comparison to what I already have without the Gospel):

- eternal life ,​

I have am eternal being, but potato, potahto.

- forgiveness of sins ,completely ,past present and future .​

I have no concept of sin. I have a karmic account which satisfied through dharma.

- Peace with God​

Aham Brahmasi (I am Brahman), so I have peace as God.

- Justification​

No idea what this means. Justification for ??

- redemption​

Redundant to "forgiveness of sin" above. Again, my redemption comes though dharma.

- Blessed with all spiritual blessings​

Since no clear definition of "spiritual blessings" is offered, let's just assume I have this made-up concept as well.

- Its all a free gift​

Fine print: Tithing and cost of the Bible not included.

- cannot be earned​

But...

- recieved through faith​

...it's earned through faith.
No faith required for me. Nothing to receive or earn. Just a simple realization of what I am in my true nature. So what I have really is free and doesn't require belief.

- No rituals,pilgrimage, special clothes ,bno joining an organisation , club , ' church ' no practices, no asceticism , to recieve all of the above .​

(though blind faith in what was written down by another centuries ago is required).
But none of these are required for me, either. Practice and asceticism just facilitate and expedite the process of Self-realization.

Final thought: If it works for you, great! Don't assume it works for everyone else or that anyone else needs your free gift.

No tithing. Thats OT . I assume you purchased books also ? For what you are trying to achieve ,it is what you have to do. There's no ' free gift ' . Believing requires no ' effort ' . Believing from the heart . And are you not ' trusting the writing's of other men? How is what you believe not ' blind faith ? If you don't need to practice asceticism, do ' practices, rituals and such then why bother ? Its because you must .Its another religion on what you do .

 

[MatthewA]

@Unveiled Artist No. I have not. But you can feel free to tell me if you like; I do not mind other people and what they believe; I might not agree or believe with what they are saying is the truth though because depending on what is presented it can be questionable.

I do not condemn them for it; or judge them; sometimes will become lower and allow them to have the say; because of humility that is with-in that comes from by the spirit of Christ I believe.

I use to dabble in Satanism, Wiccanism; and things like that; believed could talk to dead spirits through ouija board, and things like this in life; and have met I believe one person who was wiccan she did tarot cards and also was one the first person to ever have gotten to kiss.

 

[John1.12]

I don't see much similarity between what you say is in the Gospels and what I actually read in it.

... though I recognize that you certainly aren't the first person I've seen from the tradition that reinterprets the Bible this way.

I meant the Gospel specifically( 1 cor 15: 1-4 ) Not the 4 gospels . I have no ' tradition ' . What tradition are you referring to when you say ' the tradition? .And could you explain how im reinterpreting the bible as you say ?

 

[Moonjuice]

@Moonjuice That is a good question.

In my life at 26 years old there was a void in my heart; and my only though was listening to preachers preach on the youtube; and then after that I made the decision to go and read the bible for myself and find out who Jesus Christ was and what he represented and my life slowly started to be taken from the dark void in my heart into a place of joy; and thankfulness; that has been my experience and believe that God and the Lord Yeshua have changed my life around for the better.

To be saved to the kingdom of God; one needs Christ Jesus who is the way, the truth, the life and no man has access to the Father except by and through him. I believe.

To have a spiritual relationship and connection with the creator is a wonderful experience knowing that you are loved, accepted and that when you Love God; you desire to love others too and not condemn or judge them. I believe.

The old ways die from being hateful and greedy; into having joy and peace by and through the spirit; and to have these things one must believe and have faith; because without faith it is impossible to please God. I believe.

I believe that God desires for all people to come to the knowledge and the truth about the Son of God.

To clarify, I don't think you are using the word "saved" correctly. "Saved to the Kingdom of heaven" is grammatically incorrect. You can be saved "from" something. But you can't be saved "to" something. So what exactly are you being saved from? Why would anyone need to be saved in the first place? Also, hate to say it, but I did the exact same thing as you. I read the bible. It was reading the bible that convinced me that the Christian religion is a man-made invention. Strange that two people can read the same thing and come to two different conclusions. Why do you think that is?

 

[Polymath257]

Yes if its fake then its pointless news. But if its true ,I would say its the greatest news you could ever hear. Its mean you will live eternally, for one . No ' death 'ultimately '.

Even if it is true, I don't see that as a very positive thing.

While I would not mind living longer, say a couple thousand years, the idea of living for eternity seems positively terrifying.

Extinction is something to be devoutly wished for.

 

[MatthewA]

@Moonjuice you may believe that if you like these are my answers to those questions already

Its Good news . post 18
Its Good news . post 31
Its Good news . post 33

I will not answer them again. It takes a lot of time typing all this up.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I assume you purchased books also ?

I've purchased books, but only because it was my choice to take the path of Jnana Yoga (knowledge), but purchasing books or even having knowledge of their contents is not requisite to Self-realization. It merely facilitates/expedites the process, as I stated in my first response to you, or in my case, confirms my experiences.

One can learn directly from a guru, take the path of Bhakti yoga (worship), or take the path of Karma yoga (action), but a combination of the yogas is optimal.

No money required. Free.

And are you not ' trusting the writing's of other men? How is what you believe not ' blind faith ?

I trust my experiences. There is no faith required for experiences. The texts merely validate the experiences. If my experiences and the text are in conflict, my experiences win out.

If you don't need to practice asceticism, do ' practices, rituals and such then why bother ? Its because you must .Its another religion on what you do .

It's not because I must. It's because I choose to.

A word of advice. Before you tell someone what they must do in their path, it's helpful to learn a bit about the path (or even know what that path is).

 

[InChrist]

The good news? The good news is that God, who loves you, also has plans to torture you for all of eternity. Why? Because you were born into a world where you need to be saved from deserved torture. BUT, because he does love you, he has allowed an escape clause from his eternal damnation. The clause is, he wants you to believe he came down in human form, to have himself murdered 2,000 years ago. Then he went back to heaven where he came from. He did this on your behalf so that he doesn't have to punish you for what you do wrong. The good news is, a human sacrifice event, a vicarious redemption, has to be believed or you will be tortured for all of eternity. I'd call this very sad news, not good news at all.

Nice twist, but that is not the biblical gospel. There is nothing in the scriptures indicating that God tortures anyone for eternity.