Its Good news .

[URAVIP2ME]

What is the context of all of these chapters? It is easy to quote but harder to explain, I believe. Especially if one doesn't know the context.

The setting of Matthew 25:31-33 is about Jesus' coming Glory Time, or the Time of Separation to take place on Earth.
Jesus as King of God's Kingdom will separate living people.
The figurative humble ' sheep ' (verse 37) have a favorable judgement.
The figurative haughty ' goats ' have an adverse judgement.
The 'sheep' (Revelation 7:9,14) can remain alive on Earth and be here to see calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth.
The ' goats' ( 2 Thessalonians 1:9) are punished with: everlasting destruction.
The 'sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth ' will rid the earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Rev. 19:14-15.
ALL the wicked will be ' destroyed forever ' according to Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.

 

[Trailblazer]

You wrote quite a few things in your OP, and even though I can see some of them as originating in the Bible, imo, some are not there.

Also, another response asks you “what is Jesus saving me from?”

You really need to answer this. If you can, it may go a long way in getting your message across.

Welcome to the forum.

FYI, Christians believe that Jesus saved them from the original sin committed by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. I do not believe that Jesus saved us from that since I believe the story is allegorical, but I do believe that Jesus saved us from something else.

“…those who turned toward the Word of God and received the profusion of His bounties—were saved from this attachment and sin, obtained everlasting life, were delivered from the chains of bondage, and attained to the world of liberty. They were freed from the vices of the human world, and were blessed by the virtues of the Kingdom. This is the meaning of the words of Christ, “I gave My blood for the life of the world” 6 —that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins” Some Answered Questions, p. 125

 

[Clara Tea]

Christ died for our sins

Jesus asked God (or asked someone) "Why hath thou forsaken me?" Which means that it wasn't Jesus's idea to die for our sins.

So, Jesus was murdered by Romans (Pontius Pilate was the one who carried out the murder).

God was all powerful, and could have saved Jesus if he had wanted to.

Because God was all-powerful, he didn't need to get humans to kill his son. God also didn't need to kill anyone to forgive humans. It was a simple matter for God to forgive.

By allow Jesus to be killed, God was not only cruel to Jesus, but cruel to the world, since Jesus was the one who cured illnesses and fed the poor. Jesus had also advocated that churches tend to the poor and sick, as well, rather than spend money on elaborate trinkets.

A lot of Christians lie about the goodness of God, but God isn't good if he does bad things (like allowing Jesus to be killed).

If God is not good, why should people want to get into heaven and be next to God?

Why did God tell Noah to build an ark? Why flood the world when God could have merely waved his hand and wiped out all humans that he didn't like? Humans don't have to do anything to help God get things done because God is all-powerful. Am I to understand that God made the whole universe, and made complex creatures (like humans) but couldn't build an ark without human help?

If God is good, why did he allow Jews to be prisoners of Egyptians?

How do we now that the story of the resurrection of Jesus was real? Because the apostles said so? How do we know that there were apostles?

Why did only a small portion of the world hear this version of the bible?

 

[Trailblazer]

What do you mean those are false representations? You mean Christians do not believe you have to be saved? Of course you do. Its the one belief among every Christian denomination that you all agree makes you a Christian.

Of course that is what they believe but as you can see Christians try to cover their ***, although they cannot deny what they believe unless they lie.

Welcome aboard the RF ship.

 

[Neuropteron]

Hmmm... If I don't believe in the concept of sin, what is Jesus saving me from?

Reminds me of a person offering a potion to cure me of a sickness I wouldn't even know I had if it weren't for the person offering me the potion telling me that I had this sickness in the first place...

Hi,
I don't mean to be disrespectful , but you are not aware that you will die ?

 

[kjw47]

The' Gospel ' literally means 'good news ' .This is described in a nut shell in 1 cor .15 .1-4

1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Often Christianity is argued against for various reasons ,but negatively .the central message is actually 'good news ' literally.
Good news for the whole world. The message of how Jesus has died for our sins . Its 'good news '. Why do some treat it as bad news . Its a free gift also . You cannot earn it . Its the offer of eternal life.
So it's:
- eternal life ,
- forgiveness of sins ,completely ,past present and future .
- Peace with God
- Justification
- redemption
- Blessed with all spiritual blessings
- Its all a free gift
- cannot be earned
- recieved through faith
- No rituals,pilgrimage, special clothes ,bno joining an organisation , club , ' church ' no practices, no asceticism , to recieve all of the above .
Even if you argue that its not true, I don't believe its sensible to argue that the message ( Gospel ) is negative, or bad news ,if it is indeed true . Which of course I believe it is .
Thoughts?

The bible itself teaches, It is a two edge sword- Hebrews 4:12--
Good news for those who live now to do Jesus Fathers will( Matt 7:21-23) over their own will. And endure until their end, doing just that to get saved( Matthew 10:22)
If one practices a sin= a worker of iniquity( Matt 7:23) it does not sound like they can enter Gods kingdom when Jesus tells those, to get away from him at judgement. This is what Jesus teaches. So do his real teachers.

 

[Trailblazer]

Hi,
I don't mean to be disrespectful , but you are not aware that you will die ?

We are all going to die and nobody is going to be "raised" from the dead.
but we all will live on ion the spiritual world in a spiritual body no matter what we believed.

 

[Moonjuice]

We are all going to die and nobody is going to be "raised" from the dead.
but we all will live on ion the spiritual world in a spiritual body no matter what we believed.

Assuming of course there is a spiritual world, and we have spiritual bodies, neither of which have anything close to factual evidence to prove they exist in any way. Wishful thinking about what happens after death is certainly fine by me, as long as it doesn’t cause harm to anyone else. I’m sure the kool-aid drinkers of the Heaven’s Gate cult would have liked to know some actual facts before forming their opinions on the topic.

 

[Trailblazer]

Assuming of course there is a spiritual world, and we have spiritual bodies, neither of which have anything close to factual evidence to prove they exist in any way.

It cannot be proven as a fact, but there is evidence that indicates it exists.

Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement: https://www.google.com/search

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

 

[Moonjuice]

It cannot be proven as a fact, but there is evidence that indicates it exists.

Proof: evidence or argument establishing or helping to establish a fact or the truth of a statement: https://www.google.com/search

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid: https://www.google.com/search

What is the very best evidence you have seen? Anything in particular you find convincing?

 

[Trailblazer]

What is the very best evidence you have seen? Anything in particular you find convincing?

My very best evidence is what my religion revealed through Baha'u'llah because I believe He had the knowledge of God.

 

[InChrist]

Guessing forever and ever is a long time?

Revelation 14:9-11
New International Version

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

No doubt eternity or forever is a long time, actually beyond and apart from time, but my thoughts are not focused on eternity, rather torture. God does not torture anyone. To say that is unbiblical.

 

[Trailblazer]

No doubt eternity or forever is a long time, actually beyond and apart from time, but my thoughts are not focused on eternity, rather torture. God does not torture anyone. To say that is unbiblical.

Then what do you make is the verses below? And what about the Christian belief in hell? If hell is not torture what is it?

Revelation 14:9-11
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.

 

[Trailblazer]

Guessing forever and ever is a long time?

Revelation 14:9-11
New International Version

9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Hello again friend.
Do you believe that God tortures people forever and ever?
Who is the beast anyway?

 

[InChrist]

There is nothing in the scriptures? Are we talking about the same bible?
Mathew 25:46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life"
2 Thessalonians 1:9 "They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might"
Revelation 14:11 "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
John 3:36 "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."
2 Thessalonians 1: 8-9 "In flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

There are dozens of scriptures referencing eternal punishment.

Find me the word “torture” which you used initially. As a finite created beings, I don’t think you or I have the ability to say or determine whether the eternal punishment God designates is unjustified. As well, the scriptures are repeatedly clear that God is Just.
Those are my thoughts, I realize you likely disagree and that’s your prerogative.

 

[JoshuaTree]

Hello again friend.
Do you believe that God tortures people forever and ever?
Who is the beast anyway?

Hi!

I've been pondering this since the post. Guessing the text book answer is absence from God (hell) is the torture... Yet revelation discusses torture in the presence of angels and the lamb (Jesus), which suggests presence of God.

 

[InChrist]

Matthew 25:46- "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Matthew 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 - They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

Matthew 13:50 - and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Jude 1:7 - In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

As I posted to another


Find me the word “torture”. As a finite created beings, I don’t think you or I have the ability to say or determine whether the eternal punishment God designates is unjustified. As well, the scriptures are repeatedly clear that God is Just.
Those are my thoughts, I realize you likely disagree and that’s your prerogative.

 

[JoshuaTree]

Hello again friend.
Do you believe that God tortures people forever and ever?
Who is the beast anyway?

As for my personal belief I don't believe in an eternal hell, I believe in a temporal hell here on earth but not eternal torment.

 

[JoshuaTree]

No doubt eternity or forever is a long time, actually beyond and apart from time, but my thoughts are not focused on eternity, rather torture. God does not torture anyone. To say that is unbiblical.

Please explain how eternal torment works, I'm curious. Thanks!

 

[JoshuaTree]

As I posted to another


Find me the word “torture”. As a finite created beings, I don’t think you or I have the ability to say or determine whether the eternal punishment God designates is unjustified. As well, the scriptures are repeatedly clear that God is Just.
Those are my thoughts, I realize you likely disagree and that’s your prerogative.

Ah, justified punishment isn't torture. Thanks.