Its not euthanasia, its suicide.

[Rival]

Look, this isn't about your thoughts, it's about me telling you to stop wallowing and learning to love your country.

It's about realising you owe your loyalty to something other, something bigger, than yourself. Once upon a time, we understood this. But nah, now it's me me me me me me, my thoughts, my wants, my my my. As though there is even a you, which we haven't settled on yet. One is meant to suffer for the sake of others. Or, when did everyone decide against this?

Committing suicide is a total repudiation of that loyalty.

It's the ultimate in selfishness.

 

[Rival]

I guess not everyone wants to live in my Amish society!

Oh well.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I'm treatment resistant. Most C-PTSD and it's ensuing mental orchestra of conditions is. I'd love the option for euthanasia if I got to a point where I couldn't handle things anymore.

But here's the deal, now instead of arranging things with family. It's gotta be sudden an unexpected, traumatizing all.

The same could be said for people who are suicidal for something much simpler: a breakup, or because they thought they looked ugly. These reasons probably wouldn't permit assisted suicide, but people who commit suicide over simple matters like that are not uncommon. Should we open up euthanasia up for them as well, to avoid the unexpected and traumatizing type of suicide for them? And should we allow teenagers to apply for assisted suicide, there's a chance they might go out in their own messy way if they're not allowed.

 

[Secret Chief]

It's about realising you owe your loyalty to something other, something bigger, than yourself. Once upon a time, we understood this. But nah, now it's me me me me me me, my thoughts, my wants, my my my. As though there is even a you, which we haven't settled on yet. One is meant to suffer for the sake of others. Or, when did everyone decide against this?

Committing suicide is a total repudiation of that loyalty.

It's the ultimate in selfishness.

I hope you're not considering a career as a therapist or counsellor, since your empathy bypass.

 

[Secret Chief]

I guess not everyone wants to live in my Amish society!

You don't use electricity then?

 

[Rival]

I hope you're not considering a career as a therapist or counsellor, since your empathy bypass.

I'm just giving you a pre-Early Modern take.

The modern idea of the self is from the 16th c. on.

I don't lack empathy, I think the idea of the self is inherently selfish.

 

[The Hammer]

The same could be said for people who are suicidal for something much simpler: a breakup, or because they thought they looked ugly. These reasons probably wouldn't permit assisted suicide, but people who commit suicide over simple matters like that are not uncommon. Should we open up euthanasia up for them as well, to avoid the unexpected and traumatizing type of suicide for them? And should we allow teenagers to apply for assisted suicide, there's a chance they might go out in their own messy way if they're not allowed.

Yeah like I said I don't condone suicide. But... I'm not interfering in another person's decision. Especially ot euthanasia, which takes an authorization review panel, and not just a single doctors word..

 

[The Hammer]

I don't lack empathy, I think the idea of the self is inherently selfish.

That's why on a decompressing airplane, you put your air mask on first before helping others.

You're no use dead.

 

[Rival]

This:

"The western conception of the person as a bounded, unique, more or less integrated motivational and cognitive universe, a dynamic centre of awareness, emotion, judgement, and action organised into a distinctive whole and set contrastively against a social and natural background is, however incorrigible it may seem to us, a rather peculiar idea within the context of the world's cultures." Quoted in Rainbow, P, & Sullivan, W. M., Interpretative Social Science, Wiley, 1979, page 229.

Etc.

 

[The Hammer]

I'm just giving you a pre-Early Modern take.

The modern idea of the self is from the 16th c. on.

I don't lack empathy, I think the idea of the self is inherently selfish.

Both a communal nature and individual support needs to be used in balance. Pushing too far to either extreme will harm more than help.

 

[The Hammer]

I think @Rival might like China? Can't get much more communal in the modern world. Social credit to keep the world in line with the right way to think, etc. God forbid people be unique.

 

[Rival]

I think @Rival might like China? Can't get much more communal in the modern world. Social credit to keep the world in line with the right way to think, etc. God forbid people be unique.

More like the Amish, Charedim, etc.

 

[The Hammer]

More like the Amish, Charedim, etc.

 

[Rival]

View attachment 90747

Well, it's an interesting thought, but my parents did just fine and we were lower middle class to boot.

It's really just called Christianity.

'Not mine, by thy will be done.'

 

[The Hammer]

Well, it's an interesting thought, but my parents did just fine and we were lower middle class to boot.

It's really just called Christianity.

'Not mine, by thy will be done.'

I've listened to you complain about your lack of emotional support from your parents for years. Economic status doesn't impact that.

I'm leaving it there. Good day friend.

 

[Kathryn]

Source?

The troubled 29-year-old helped to die by Dutch doctors

In January Aurelia Brouwers drank poison supplied by a doctor and lay down to die. She was 29.

www.bbc.com

 

[Rival]

I've listened to you complain about your lack of emotional support from your parents for years.

You didn't specify which parents. It's not limited to mom and dad. My mom was not good at that no, but my grandparents were and I spent a lot of time with them. They raised me just as much. Parents are more than just a nuclear family, as it includes wider family. I was well treated by my aunt, too.

I had good enough care from them to offset my mother's histrionic behaviours. I was raised by many people, including a great school for the most part. I had twin sisters who loved me dearly.

Given stats, economic status does appear to impact mental health outcomes, though.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I guess not everyone wants to live in my Amish society!

Oh well.

They're going to miss out on all that delicious homemade jam!

 

[LadyJane]

This really boils down to accepting that you can't control what other people do. You can’t force people to look at life the way you do or look at death the way you want them to. That sort of meddling seems aggressively judgemental. Why burden them with another problem they don't need?

 

[Twilight Hue]

The troubled 29-year-old helped to die by Dutch doctors

In January Aurelia Brouwers drank poison supplied by a doctor and lay down to die. She was 29.

www.bbc.com

I read that snippet in the article.....

"During those last weeks, she spent her time with loved ones, doing craftwork and riding her bike in Deventer, the city she adored".

That dosent sound too depressed to me if she was still able to do those things.

This woman had wasted herself for good when it's obviously clear she didn't have to.

Darwin award recipient as far as I'm concerned.