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James Cameron is a better God than Yahweh!

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Surprisingly, I am being entirely serious. Keep reading.

It is very likely that you are among the 100 million people that paid to see Cameron's latest work, Avatar. On the off-chance you aren't, don't worry. I'm not here to discuss the plot; I want to discuss the world he built and the Na'vi race he invented to demonstrate his point.

It becomes quite clear in the course of the film that the Na'vi live in harmony with nature. That isn't a metaphor; their entire environment appears perfectly suited to them. Although they have ostensibly Iron Age technology, if that, they do not use any survival strategy used by Iron Age humanity. (There is no suggestion of farming, or of animal husbandry, and the vague illustration of any sort of hunting suggests it's an occasional guilty pleasure.) Instead, everything is handed to them, to the point that the leaves of Hometree (a skyscraper-like, apparently natural dwelling) serve as hammocks. Neither is there any suggestion of a disagreement between either individuals or tribes of Na'vi. All conflicts that arise in the film are, in some way, caused by humans. However, that last part is actually the most plausible, due to Na'vi anatomy: connected to the back of their skull is, functionally, a network cable. This allows them to communicate with a network of trees that is implied to span the entire world, (this part is technically a spoiler) control every creature therein, and store vast quantities of information, up to and including the memories of their ancestors.

Now, when I first saw the film, it occurred to me: Earth is crap compared to that. Before humans came along, nature was cruel, barren, and permitted no mistake before eating you alive. Literally. Even after humans came along, there are many many problems that cannot be fixed without apparently impossible efforts. The lack of co-ordination and co-operation has left a large portion of people only slightly better off than they were a thousand years ago, and all of Earth's creatures about to die because we've accidentally broken the atmosphere, and nobody has the sway needed to fix it.

I am not the only one who thought this. There was a small but vocal group who were outright depressed by Cameron's world and the fact that it was such a very much nicer place to live. This people, as far as I can tell, (darn you, Poe) genuinely want to leave reality simply because of incredibly powerful CGI.

When you suggest a nice and loving someone capable of synthesizing life itself, capable of resurrecting the dead, performing acts of chemistry we can still only dream of, and of performing the still-impossible feat of walking on water, you suggest someone capable of making the comparatively trivial changes needed to make Earth run as smoothly as Pandora.

Why was the world such a mess, even before man came along, when a human, so puny, insignificant and blind compared to the almighty God, can invent a better one? Why was there any possibility whatsoever of the world falling apart as it has, when it takes only trivial changes to make everything work absolutely harmoniously?

(PS: A faulty motor cortex is more annoying to live with and far harder to fix than a broken spinal cord.)
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Unfortunately, movies don't show us the whole picture. Nor do they show us all perspectives. Cameron had the luxury of designing a world that shows us exactly what he wants us to see -- not what the characters themselves would see.
If you think about it hard enough, your premise is terribly naive.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Unfortunately, movies don't show us the whole picture. Nor do they show us all perspectives. Cameron had the luxury of designing a world that shows us exactly what he wants us to see -- not what the characters themselves would see.
If you think about it hard enough, your premise is terribly naive.
I don't think it's particularly naive.

Cameron's Avatar world is just one example. Humans from all cultures have dreamed and imagined worlds far more wondrous than this one.
 

Badran

Veteran Member
Premium Member
But isn't all this assuming that God made as good a reality as he could? And that he was aiming to make as good a reality as he could?

And where is the consideration of the concept of afterlife in this?
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
"James Cameron is a better God than Yahweh!"

So you're saying that you believe that the Biblical God created the world now? :shrug:
 
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silvermoon383

Well-Known Member
I don't see it as a case of 2 deities making worlds that are better than the other. I see it as 2 different evolutionary paths creating different worlds.

On Earth, survival of the fittest was the rule and it was based on competition and niche filling. There wasn't really any guidance because there was nothing there to perform said guidance.

On Pandora, a species (or genus or family, not really sure) of tree developed sentience and figured out how to manipulate its environment to its benefit, and also to the benefit of the entire moon since for a tree that tends to go hand in hand. Competition wasn't the rule like it was on Earth.

And as a quick aside, hunting is a central part of Na'vi life, not a small side pleasure.)
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
This reminds me of when Christina Applegate said that she was more popular than God.
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Unfortunately, movies don't show us the whole picture. Nor do they show us all perspectives. Cameron had the luxury of designing a world that shows us exactly what he wants us to see -- not what the characters themselves would see.
If you think about it hard enough, your premise is terribly naive.
He almost explicitly states that we are seeing everything. The plot relies on the fact that the Na'vi have no problems.

But isn't all this assuming that God made as good a reality as he could? And that he was aiming to make as good a reality as he could?
That's the assumption made by a lot of religious beliefs. They suggest that God is loving, to some degree or another, and that he made the world as it is.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
He almost explicitly states that we are seeing everything. The plot relies on the fact that the Na'vi have no problems.


That's the assumption made by a lot of religious beliefs. They suggest that God is loving, to some degree or another, and that he made the world as it is.
There's one very compelling argument against your claim:
Cameron's world is missing one component: Reality.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
There's one very compelling argument against your claim:
Cameron's world is missing one component: Reality.
Agreed. Frankly, I found Avatar almost unwatchable. The plot line was - to be generous - pathetic; the acting was - to be generous - horrid and the only saving grace was the CGI which was state of the art.

Sorry, PolyHedral, epic fail on the comparison, imo.
 

Falvlun

Earthbending Lemur
Premium Member
There's one very compelling argument against your claim:
Cameron's world is missing one component: Reality.
What about reality would make Pandora impossible? And could not an omnipotent God imbue Pandora with the breath of existence should he so desire?
 

no-body

Well-Known Member
I have tried to argue this point before that mans imagination is greater than God hence if God is truly omnipotent he has created everything badly and everything else is an excuse (but we see through a mirror darkly! you weren't there when he created the world! just don't cut it as excuses, it means he isn't omnipotent then)

Not sure what James Cameron and his fictional movie have to do with it though, undoubtedly he drew from religions and other sources of fiction to create his "universe" so it's nothing special.

Reminds me of those nuts who because of the mutliverse theory believe they are an anime character God in other universes having great adventures or something with characters from a cartoon show, and they tie this to some sort of pseudo spiritual made up religion. Can't for the life of me recall what they call themselves but it sounds related.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
I saw Pandora as being no different from Earth. It represents specifically the tribal cultures who have lived "in harmony" with their environment, "untouched." Don't know if there are any left.

If Pandora seems a better place to live, it's only because that way of life here on Earth may be equally romanticized.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
What about reality would make Pandora impossible? And could not an omnipotent God imbue Pandora with the breath of existence should he so desire?
The fact that there aren't in reality any sentient, arboreal primates with prehensile tails and language skills?

How could a conglomerate of photographs in chronological order, printed on celluloid, have an existence in reality? Oh, wait! They do! And that reality is called a ...
"movie.":facepalm:
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
There's one very compelling argument against your claim:
Cameron's world is missing one component: Reality.
Agreed. Frankly, I found Avatar almost unwatchable. The plot line was - to be generous - pathetic; the acting was - to be generous - horrid and the only saving grace was the CGI which was state of the art.
Sorry, PolyHedral, epic fail on the comparison, imo.
You're actually agreeing with me: The real world is absolutely nothing like Pandora. However, you are ignoring the follow-on question: Why not? "Because it isn't" isn't an answer when the God involved is nigh-omnipotent.

(And yes, the whole thing was only saved by Stephen Lang's acting.)
Not sure what James Cameron and his fictional movie have to do with it though, undoubtedly he drew from religions and other sources of fiction to create his "universe" so it's nothing special.
It was just the most powerful example. :D That $300,000,000 budget had some effect, even if it's possibly not what some people wanted.

I saw Pandora as being no different from Earth. It represents specifically the tribal cultures who have lived "in harmony" with their environment, "untouched." Don't know if there are any left.
That lifestyle does not, never did, and barring incredible technology, never will work as well on Earth as it does on Pandora. All human societies live in "harmony" with nature to one degree or another because they have to: provoking nature will get you killed. This is not the case on Pandora; Leaf-hammocks are only the tip of the iceberg.

The fact that there aren't in reality any sentient, arboreal primates with prehensile tails and language skills?
That wasn't the question. The only thing on Pandora that cannot be engineered are the flying mountains, and they are completely tangential to my point. Everything else can be created, given some high but finite skill in engineering. Theorectically, Earth could work that way. Answering why it doesn't is a gigantic hole in any applicable concept of God.

doppelgänger;2441732 said:
There you have it . . . religious belief in a nutshell...
So do we need to be asking, "Who's worshiping the sky people?" :p

because no one except a person with poor grasp of reality would believe that a movie is reality.
Yes, but is it unreasonable for people to want a movie to be reality?
 
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