January 6th, Just What Was It?

[Colt]

"More positive" doesn't mean that they weren't still disproportionately targeted.

Any source for the crime stats in the 50s and 60s?

How the 1960s' Riots Hurt African-Americans

Cool. So, why do you think black people, specifically, are more likely to be born into those circumstances? Fatherless-ness isn't hereditary.

General cultural decline in this age

The key question is: why?

A culture of violence, moral decay and a disregard for life informs the worldview and behaviors of young men. The homicide rate is disproportionately high in Africa as well.

 

[Colt]

"More positive" doesn't mean that they weren't still disproportionately targeted.

Any source for the crime stats in the 50s and 60s?


Cool. So, why do you think black people, specifically, are more likely to be born into those circumstances? Fatherless-ness isn't hereditary.



The key question is: why?

Insightful

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Insightful

Are you capable of engaging with the things I'm saying?

If not, what are you doing on debate forum?

 

[Colt]

Are you capable of engaging with the things I'm saying?

If not, what are you doing on debate forum?

Sure I am, but you have no intention to listen.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Sure I am, but you have no intention to listen.

Says the guy who responds to multiple questions from me by posting a completely unrelated YouTube video.

 

[anna.]

View attachment 73190

That's less the genius of Orwell and more a basic psychology of in-group and out-group behavior.

 

[Colt]

Says the guy who responds to multiple questions from me by posting a completely unrelated YouTube video.

Why can't you answer simple questions?

Did you watch the video? Did you read the link? You have yet to respond.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

How the 1960s' Riots Hurt African-Americans

This articles does not claim that things were statistically better for black people in the 50s and 60s than today. It just says that the riots in the 60s negatively impacted black employment, income and house prices between the 60s and the 80s.

General cultural decline in this age

This is extremely vague and doesn't answer the question. WHY is this "cultural decline" affecting black communities MORE?

A culture of violence, moral decay and a disregard for life informs the worldview and behaviors of young men.

This doesn't explain the disparity between white and black men. That's what I'm asking you to explain.

The homicide rate is disproportionately high in Africa as well.

The question is WHY you think that is. It's very suspicious to me that you are avoiding giving a direct answer.

I'll make it easy for you: Do you believe that the reason black people commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime in America may have a genetic component? Yes or no?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Did you watch the video?

No.

And I'm not going to.

Debate me, don't post YouTube videos of no relevance. Make your own arguments.

 

[Colt]

This articles does not claim that things were statistically better for black people in the 50s and 60s than today. It just says that the riots in the 60s negatively impacted black employment, income and house prices between the 60s and the 80s.
How the 1960s' Riots Hurt African-Americans

If things were better then duh!

This is extremely vague and doesn't answer the question. WHY is this "cultural decline" affecting black communities MORE?

General decline in societal structure. Its effecting the black sub-culture more.

This doesn't explain the disparity between white and black men. That's what I'm asking you to explain.

One can only speculate as to why the black subculture is so violent.

The question is WHY you think that is. It's very suspicious to me that you are avoiding giving a direct answer.

Again, one could only speculate, but I suspect that you think it's someone else's fault? Young black men haven't had to accept responsibility for their behavior when there is a constant drumming from leftist black activist that EVERYTHING is somehow somebody else's fault!

I'll make it easy for you: Do you believe that the reason black people commit a disproportionate amount of violent crime in America may have a genetic component? Yes or no?

No! The video, that you think is totally unrelated discuses that. After WW2 black American solders that stayed behind in Germany showed that their kids scored just as well as their white counterparts in IQ testing. Soldiers that returned to the influence of black subculture (that was learned/adopted from white immigrants in the South) scored worse. Black kids in the North (where subculture had not yet spoiled things) scored BETTER than white kids in the south. Now the violent white/black subculture is affecting all kids everywhere!

 

[Colt]

No.

And I'm not going to.

Debate me, don't post YouTube videos of no relevance. Make your own arguments.

It is very relevant, but you fear having your pet theories challenged. Noted! Don't ask questions if you cant accept comprehensive answers!

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It is very relevant, but you fear having your pet theories challenged. Noted! Don't ask questions if you cant accept comprehensive answers!

Why are you on a debate forum if you're afraid of actual debate?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

If things were better then duh!

So you don't understand the difference between the statement "things were statistically better for black people before the 60s than now" and "riots in the 60s lead to a temporary decrease in the economic security of black communities between the 60s and 80s"?

General decline in societal structure. Its effecting the black sub-culture more.

What decline? How is it effecting it? Why is it effecting "black sub-culture" more?

One can only speculate as to why the black subculture is so violent.

Care you offer some speculation, then?

Again, one could only speculate, but I suspect that you think it's someone else's fault? Young black men haven't had to accept responsibility for their behavior when there is a constant drumming from leftist black activist that EVERYTHING is somehow somebody else's fault!

Not said anything even remotely like that. Stop making up nonsense. Answer my questions or make an argument for your positions - don't make up positions and then ascribe them to me. That's not how debate works.

No!

Good! So, you and I agree that the significant discrepancy in black and white violent crime rates has nothing to do - inherently - with "being black". So, the only other explanation for the discrepancy is a societal one - that there are conditions in society that LEAD TO those outcomes.

Would you care to offer some speculation as to what those causes are? And no, I am not leading you to the conclusion "because white people bad". That's not the answer I'm looking for.

The video, that you think is totally unrelated discuses that. After WW2 black American solders that stayed behind in Germany showed that their kids scored just as well as their white counterparts in IQ testing. Soldiers that returned to the influence of black subculture (that was learned/adopted from white immigrants in the South) scored worse. Black kids in the North (where subculture had not yet spoiled things) scored BETTER than white kids in the south. Now the violent white/black subculture is affecting all kids everywhere!

Sounds like a lot of speculation with very little historical veracity. And it still doesn't answer the question of WHY this occurs. You can say "this subculture causes bad behaviour", but that doesn't explain why said subculture developed specifically around black people in the first place. Since you seem to imply you accept the premise that there is no inherent, genetic difference between black and white people in terms of intelligence or achievement, even if we therefore attribute the difference to "black culture", you still then have to answer the question as to why this culture arose in this particular group.

Understand?

Also, I think it's bizarre to attribute these things to "experiencing black subculture" when it can very obviously be attributed to other, far more obvious things. Such as lack of access to financial support, lack of social outreach and poorer education - all of which are more of an issue in the American south than the American north. I mean, think about that logic for a moment. "Black people abroad do better than black people here, and black people in wealthier areas do better than black people in poorer areas... The cause must be black subculture!"

Maybe the cause is... America is systemically racist?

 

[Colt]

Why are you on a debate forum if you're afraid of actual debate?

Why are you on a debate forum if you're afraid of actual debate?

So you don't understand the difference between the statement "things were statistically better for black people before the 60s than now" and "riots in the 60s lead to a temporary decrease in the economic security of black communities between the 60s and 80s"?


What decline? How is it effecting it? Why is it effecting "black sub-culture" more?


Care you offer some speculation, then?


Not said anything even remotely like that. Stop making up nonsense. Answer my questions or make an argument for your positions - don't make up positions and then ascribe them to me. That's not how debate works.


Good! So, you and I agree that the significant discrepancy in black and white violent crime rates has nothing to do - inherently - with "being black". So, the only other explanation for the discrepancy is a societal one - that there are conditions in society that LEAD TO those outcomes.

Would you care to offer some speculation as to what those causes are? And no, I am not leading you to the conclusion "because white people bad". That's not the answer I'm looking for.


Sounds like a lot of speculation with very little historical veracity. And it still doesn't answer the question of WHY this occurs. You can say "this subculture causes bad behaviour", but that doesn't explain why said subculture developed specifically around black people in the first place. Since you seem to imply you accept the premise that there is no inherent, genetic difference between black and white people in terms of intelligence or achievement, even if we therefore attribute the difference to "black culture", you still then have to answer the question as to why this culture arose in this particular group.

Understand?

Also, I think it's bizarre to attribute these things to "experiencing black subculture" when it can very obviously be attributed to other, far more obvious things. Such as lack of access to financial support, lack of social outreach and poorer education - all of which are more of an issue in the American south than the American north. I mean, think about that logic for a moment. "Black people abroad do better than black people here, and black people in wealthier areas do better than black people in poorer areas... The cause must be black subculture!"

Maybe the cause is... America is systemically racist?

We are debating, you've mainly been doing snarky.

America isn't systemically racist, rather systemic racism is a blanket excuse for personal failings which leads to more of a lack of accountability. Black conservatives don't buy those excuses at all. Compassion addicts are more likely to believe the excuses people make for personal failings.

The high school dropout rate has improved but the average was about 3,000,000+ annually up until Covid. Thats people quitting the FREE school that we already offer them! 60,000,000+ young, uneducated people in an economy in the last 20 years, an economy that increasingly needs skilled labor has a number of negative side effects.

Poverty is NO excuse for killing your neighbor!

 

[ImmortalFlame]

We are debating, you've mainly been doing snarky.

Says you.

America isn't systemically racist, rather systemic racism is a blanket excuse for personal failings which leads to more of a lack of accountability. Black conservatives don't buy those excuses at all. Compassion addicts are more likely to believe the excuses people make for personal failings.

So you think the reason for the disparity in black wealth, criminality, education, etc. is all down to "accountability"?

The high school dropout rate has improved but the average was about 3,000,000+ annually up until Covid. Thats people quitting the FREE school that we already offer them! 60,000,000+ young, uneducated people in an economy in the last 20 years, an economy that increasingly needs skilled labor has a number of negative side effects.

Poverty is NO excuse for killing your neighbor!

I don't think you understand the purpose of social analysis. Do you understand that by examining trends we might be able to find the cause of the trend and, y'know, do something about it?

People like you who are quick to point out that black people commit a disproportionate amount of crime are suddenly very cagey when asked what you think the cause of this is. You have even acknowledged that you personally believe that race isn't really a factor (genetically speaking) and you've even written about how black people in better circumstances have better outcomes. So the inevitable conclusion then becomes that there must be something that is significantly negatively affecting black communities enough to create a disparity between white and black crime rates. And, rather than take the next step and therefore acknowledge that maybe - just maybe - there are societal causes for trends, you run back your "individual responsibility" mantra, as if trends and statistics are all completely meaningless despite you bringing them up yourself.

I will make this very clear: the reason black people are over-represented within the criminal justice system is because black people are more likely to be poor. Black people are more likely to be poor due to hundreds of years of legal discrimination carried out prior to the civil rights act in the sixties (as well as numerous policies following, such as redlining). Because black communities tend to be poorer, and therefore have a larger criminal element, police are more likely to patrol them, meaning that black people become disproportionately represented in arrest and conviction statistics. Because black people are disproportionately represented in arrests and in prisons, people in general perceive "being black" as a marker of criminality - including many black people who internalize this notion - which leads to increased criminal activity, higher conviction rates and harsher sentences. If we can understand this, we understand that a potential solution could be to invest more money in black communities and to redress the perception of black people as inherently criminal.

But you can't fix the problem if you refuse to acknowledge the causes.

 

[Colt]

Says you.


So you think the reason for the disparity in black wealth, criminality, education, etc. is all down to "accountability"?


I don't think you understand the purpose of social analysis. Do you understand that by examining trends we might be able to find the cause of the trend and, y'know, do something about it?

People like you who are quick to point out that black people commit a disproportionate amount of crime are suddenly very cagey when asked what you think the cause of this is. You have even acknowledged that you do not personally believe that race isn't really a factor (genetically speaking) and you've even written about how black people in better circumstances have better outcomes. So the inevitable conclusion then becomes that there must be something that is significantly negatively affecting black communities enough to create a disparity between white and black crime rates. And, rather than take the next step and therefore acknowledge that maybe - just maybe - there are societal causes for trends, you run back your "individual responsibility" mantra, as if trends and statistics are all completely meaningless despite you bringing them up yourself.

I will make this very clear: the reason black people are over-represented within the criminal justice system is because black people are more likely to be poor. Black people are more likely to be poor due to hundreds of years of legal discrimination carried out prior to the civil rights act in the sixties (as well as numerous policies following, such as redlining). Because black communities tend to be poorer, and therefore have a larger criminal element, police are more likely to patrol them, meaning that black people become disproportionately represented in arrest and conviction statistics. Because black people are disproportionately represented in arrests and in prisons, people in general perceive "being black" as a marker of criminality - including many black people who internalize this notion - which leads to increased criminal activity, higher conviction rates and harsher sentences. If we can understand this, we understand that a potential solution could be to invest more money in black communities and to redress the perception of black people as inherently criminal.

But you can't fix the problem if you refuse to acknowledge the causes.

Those are just your opinions. Trillions have been spent on poverty and its worse not better.

Police are called into high crime areas becuse crimes are being committed.

The option for black men committing violent crimes is don't commit them.

Even after Jail men with criminal minds don't change, the recidivism rate after 5 years is as high as 76%.

People don't change until they want to and in order to change one mast take responsibility for their behavior.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Those are just your opinions. Trillions have been spent on poverty and its worse not better.

Police are called into high crime areas becuse crimes are being committed.

The option for black men committing violent crimes is don't commit them.

Even after Jail men with criminal minds don't change, the recidivism rate after 5 years is as high as 76%.

People don't change until they want to and in order to change one mast take responsibility for their behavior.

I see now it was naive of me to think I could educate you.

You can lead a horse to water, etc.

Welcome to the ignore list.

 

[Colt]

I see now it was naive of me to think I could educate you.

You can lead a horse to water, etc.

Welcome to the ignore list.

Just Leftist arrogance trying to indoctrinate someone who's prepared. You already had me on ignore!

 

[SkepticThinker]

Those are just your opinions. Trillions have been spent on poverty and its worse not better.

Police are called into high crime areas becuse crimes are being committed.

The option for black men committing violent crimes is don't commit them.

Even after Jail men with criminal minds don't change, the recidivism rate after 5 years is as high as 76%.

People don't change until they want to and in order to change one mast take responsibility for their behavior.

You addressed none of his points and just doubled down on the racist nonsense.
Are you here to have serious discussion, or not so much?

 

[Colt]

You addressed none of his points and just doubled down on the racist nonsense.
Are you here to have serious discussion, or not so much?

I did address her points, I disagree with them.

When Libs can't debate, they cry racism!

When white men commit murder is that ALSO "systemic racism"?
When White men get shot by the cops is that ALSO racism, poverty, not enough spent on education???