It's what Jesus believed in....and ultimately why he came.What Jehovah is upset about is that people still believe in original sin and the devil...IMO.
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Jehovah's Witness cartoon suggests to Children that magic-themed toys make Jehovah 'sad'
- Thread starter Buddha Dharma
- Start date
It's not the lesson that Moses learned at Exodus 7:10-12.
We don't "fear" it...but we know the source behind it, so we avoid it as counseled in the Scriptures.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
Jesus gave a lot of reasons for 'why he came', but Christians typically only emphasize one or two of them.
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The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Jesus did not believe in the devil. "The Devil" was created c.a. 400 CE by Catholic leadership to solve the "problem" of the presence of evil and an omni-benevolent god.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Can you show me any verses wherein Jesus says we have original sin that is connected to Eve eating the apple? I know we have the propensity to sin, the question is where did it originate?
As for the devil, I do not believe it is an actual entity but rather that it represents the lower selfish nature of man, what Bahai's call the satanic self.
Matthew 16:23-26 ““But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?”
So my interpretation of those verses is that Jesus was saying that he was offended by His lower selfish nature, His satanic self, He was offended by being attracted to things that are not of God but are rather of men.
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Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
They can show where Paul says it, and as you know- Paul is next to God in the eyes of Christians. The man that never knew the living Jesus in his life, but is fully qualified to interpret the teachings he never heard. As is clear from a reading of the Pauline letters compared with the gospels. Paul had hardly any idea what Jesus taught.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I was not talking about sin, but rather about Original Sin... It is a distinction with a difference.
Yeah, I know that Paul veered off from what Jesus taught...
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
Yes, Paul arguably is where original sin comes from. He says sin entered the world through one man: Adam. Those passages seem to provide at least a foundation for the doctrine.
My response was to trailblazer's comment, "What Jehovah is upset about is that people still believe in original sin and the devil...".
And these are the reasons Jesus sacrificed his life. So he 'believed' in their existence. -- Romans 5:12 and Romans 6:23, regarding sin; and 1 John 3:8 regarding the Devil.
John 8:44
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I thought that Original Sin came from Adam and Eve, so it originated in the Old Testament... Then Christians brought Jesus in to remove it.... Thing is that Jesus never said anything about Eve and the apple, did He?
Like I said yesterday, I was not raised a Christian so I do not know the Bible very well, just bits and pieces.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Using the King James Version, which was written in the 1400's. Not the best counter-argument...
It's been analyzed by biblical scholars that, when taken in context of John 8, "the devil" here is referring to Satan. A slander that illustrates sectarian divides in the Jewish community. The etymology of "devil" clears this up further.
The Late Latin word (diabaulus) is from Ecclesiastical Greek diabolos, in Jewish and Christian use, "Devil, Satan" (scriptural loan-translation of Hebrew satan), in general use "accuser, slanderer," from diaballein "to slander, attack," literally "throw across," from dia- "across, through" + ballein "to throw" (from PIE root *gwele- "to throw, reach"). Jerome re-introduced Satan in Latin bibles, and English translators have used both in different measures.
In other words, what is being said there is that Jesus is saying that the Pharisees are "Children of Satan" - in a Jewish sense - rather than Children of God. That is, they are following their own base desires, rather than the will of Yahweh; they are giving into the temptations and trials of Satan, and are not pious men. (In Hebrew mythology, Satan is not evil but rather an angel who tests the devoutness and piety of men. His actions are directly and expressly commanded by Yahweh.)
"The Devil" in Christian mythology is the figure known as Satan (Christian sense: spooky fallen angel who wars against god), Beelzebub, Lucifer, Mephistopheles, etc. (Despite those names also being reference to individual "Princes of Hell") The big bad guy who somehow thwarts god's perfection and introduces evil into creation. A figure that you will not find in the original Hebrew bible (Torah), or clearly founded in the New Testament. The best that you get is the foundations upon which the figure was built.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
Jews don't believe in original sin, so only arguably does it come from the Hebrew Bible. Jews believe in the good and evil inclination, and that people were created already with both- and the ability to choose evil. Though the good inclination is thought stronger.
Christians give sin much more emphasis and far-reaching cosmic implications than Jews do. Jews see sin as missing the mark and little else. To break the laws in the Torah.
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oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
I looked through the posts and nearly all 'non-JWs' think this toy would be harmless.
If you lot don't mind your babes playing at killing stuff, then you've all lost the plot.
The little boy introduces the toy as a MAGIC KILLER! Now, do you all want your infants playing at killing?
You're all sad!
If you lot don't mind your babes playing at killing stuff, then you've all lost the plot.
The little boy introduces the toy as a MAGIC KILLER! Now, do you all want your infants playing at killing?
You're all sad!
Are you... ?I looked through the posts and nearly all 'non-JWs' think this toy would be harmless.
If you lot don't mind your babes playing at killing stuff, then you've all lost the plot.
The little boy introduces the toy as a MAGIC KILLER! Now, do you all want your infants playing at killing?
You're all sad!
Sometimes I hate the internet and I can't tell what actually is sarcasm at times.
Musing on this post's reactions is almost as entertaining as the video is disturbing. On the one hand an attempt to give JW parents tips on how to properly indoctrinate their children and made it publicly accessible, they've created a bigger backlash against the church as a whole. If they are ever even aware of people's reaction, would it scare them back underground to wrote distributed media? Or will they just chalk it up to 'narrow is the path and the world will hate you' and be oblivious to continued membership loss by such avenues of 'teaching'?
Any version is fine... Jesus said, "that one was a manslayer....; when he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar...."
No, these words are referencing a real person, not some allegory.
And the book of Job reveals him as an actual person....as the angels (real beings) take their station before Jehovah, Satan takes his station.
It is truly amazing....he's mankind's greatest Enemy, and many don't even think he is real! He has people thinking that their dead loved ones are "spirits" who haunt them, or otherwise interact with them, when in reality it's Satan and his demons impostering these ones (actually the "dead know nothing", Ecclesiastes 9:5, compare Psalms 146:3-4 and John 11:11-14).
Take care.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Thanks... So if the Jews are reading about Adam and Eve in Genesis and do not believe that Eve eating the apple caused original sin, then that means that is just a Christian doctrine, something that Christians invented to make Jesus the Savior necessary to remove our sins... Now I am getting it, the picture is coming into focus now...
Baha'is believe like Jews, we believe in the good and evil inclination, and that people were created with both- and the ability to choose evil. Though the good inclination is thought stronger.
Buddha Dharma
Dharma Practitioner
To be honest, I don't see many differences that crop up between Baha'is, Jews, and Muslims- in the sense you're all strict monotheists. Given theological matters concerning God, I mean.
Baha'is believe in godmen, though. Their "messangers" are halfway between God and human. It muddles things, at the very least. Jews and Muslims have no such teachings.