Jehovah's Witnesses continuing persecution in Russia....

[Deeje]

@oldbadger For a skanky old mongrel I think you're pretty darn terrific.

Your background and experience are very useful in dispelling the sensational reports that sometimes circulate about us. Twisted half truths and one distorted side of a story often work better than outright lies in misrepresenting who we are.....so thanks again for your very fair comments on this thread.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Because the Sally has made mistakes you're not going to fiorget 'em, I'll guess. You read about them and remembered them.

Read about them? Oh badger... Do you really think you're the only one here who's ever met or dealt with the "sallys"? Because that's how this sounds. And it's very silly. As for the mistakes, mistakes are one thing. Repeated negative and damaging behavior is quite another.

But you have never researched to discover how they help folks, or you wouldn't have asked me...

I am aware of many SA actions, including their tactic of giving aid at the price of preaching; suffer through the sermon for the soup, and all. I was hoping that if you had something you'd give more than "I met these people and they were just so gosh-darn wonderful!" They're an international organization; there's more to them than your locale alone. Your story is like someone having experience with one Catholic church and then trying to deny everything regarding their widespread sex-abuse scandals.

Regarding hospitality, to be frank I'm not terribly fond of you either. But I'd also quite likely welcome you into my home and treat you with the hospitality that is expected of me. I've done this for Mormons as well, and the experience was quite pleasant. JW's, on the other hand, returned my hospitality with spite and criticism, and I know for a fact that I would not be welcomed into their home. That's among the more pleasant of interactions that I've had with them. As for the SA, on top of their ethical judgmental behavior I've had quite negative experiences in their stores; due to my religion they wouldn't sell to me and instead curtly dismissed me from their store. Thankfully Goodwill isn't as discriminatory.

I know these groups better than they know me (yet they still think to condemn me), and I know enough about them to dislike them quite strongly.

 

[oldbadger]

The wheels of justice move slowly and I imagine the sheer number of cases is overwhelming but there was a Catholic Bishop sentenced for covering child abuse crimes a few days ago.

Yes...... a retired Arch-Bishop I think. It was reported here last week, I think.

The posts have overtaken me and it would take hours to answer each point........... I need rest and recuperation!

No, there should have been no files to drag out, they should have been referred to the police at the time...

Now........ on another thread it looks as if a senior member (also an Ozzie) has pointed out to me that Oz has the same policy for teachers and schools as in the UK about the reporting of child abuse. I've asked for confirmation about this, but if that is right then it must demonstrate that it can be very legally dangerous for bodies to report all suspicions straight to the Police. I've already told you that the UK government has decided not to make 'non-reporting' a criminal offence.

I need to confirm this............ give me a day.....

 

[oldbadger]

@oldbadger For a skanky old mongrel I think you're pretty darn terrific.

Your background and experience are very useful in dispelling the sensational reports that sometimes circulate about us. Twisted half truths and one distorted side of a story often work better than outright lies in misrepresenting who we are.....so thanks again for your very fair comments on this thread.

Thankyou for your kind comments, above.
That Royal Commission held enquiry about child abuse, seeking information from all manner of institutions such as YMCA, Scouts, Religious schools, Orphanages, Missions, Presbyteries, Confessionals, Rectories, Dance clubs, Defence Training Establishments, Schools, Sport centres, Hobby clubs, Community centres, Cultural and recreational centres, Detention environments and many Religions.

After five years of research and enquiry it published its findings with recommendations and guidance for the future. The fact that some folks have snatched the odd pages out of the huge report, attempted to show that this was a Criminal Court Case with convictions, magnified the results to appear many times greater and then smashed them into a thread about oppression of a religion across a hostile country can show evidence of determined-agenda in places on this thread.

One does not need to be a JW to push this kind of approach back.

All the Best.

 

[oldbadger]

Read about them? Oh badger... Do you really think you're the only one here who's ever met or dealt with the "sallys"? Because that's how this sounds. And it's very silly. As for the mistakes, mistakes are one thing. Repeated negative and damaging behavior is quite another.


I am aware of many SA actions, including their tactic of giving aid at the price of preaching; suffer through the sermon for the soup, and all. I was hoping that if you had something you'd give more than "I met these people and they were just so gosh-darn wonderful!" They're an international organization; there's more to them than your locale alone. Your story is like someone having experience with one Catholic church and then trying to deny everything regarding their widespread sex-abuse scandals.

Read and acknowledged. I can't add anything to what I've already written...... you see 'em as you do and vice-versa.

Regarding hospitality, to be frank I'm not terribly fond of you either. But I'd also quite likely welcome you into my home and treat you with the hospitality that is expected of me.

There.... you've gone and broken my heart!
On some threads we hold hands, sort of, I seem to remember.

I've done this for Mormons as well, and the experience was quite pleasant. JW's, on the other hand, returned my hospitality with spite and criticism, and I know for a fact that I would not be welcomed into their home. That's among the more pleasant of interactions that I've had with them. As for the SA, on top of their ethical judgmental behavior I've had quite negative experiences in their stores; due to my religion they wouldn't sell to me and instead curtly dismissed me from their store. Thankfully Goodwill isn't as discriminatory.

I've never visited a JW home, but a neighbour and friend of mine, an agnostic, was invited to dinner at a JW home only two weekends ago. Straight up. He enjoyed it.
I've never been to a SA store, don't even know where there is one.

I know these groups better than they know me (yet they still think to condemn me), and I know enough about them to dislike them quite strongly.

If you don't get on then you don't get on. Fair enough.

 

[John53]

Yes...... a retired Arch-Bishop I think. It was reported here last week, I think.

Not retired, he had stood down (probably a technical term for it that I can't remember) while the case was heard.

The posts have overtaken me and it would take hours to answer each point........... I need rest and recuperation!

No problem, I understand. But I will take note that you did find time to post a not very accurate summation of the thread in the next post.

Now........ on another thread it looks as if a senior member (also an Ozzie) has pointed out to me that Oz has the same policy for teachers and schools as in the UK about the reporting of child abuse. I've asked for confirmation about this, but if that is right then it must demonstrate that it can be very legally dangerous for bodies to report all suspicions straight to the Police. I've already told you that the UK government has decided not to make 'non-reporting' a criminal offence.

I need to confirm this............ give me a day.....

Sure if you want, this link may or may not help you https://www.childwise.org.au/page/41/state-legislation-reporting-nsw

I wouldn't waste too much time on it though (but that's entirely up to you) because whether the government says I am required to or not won't change what I think I should do morally. If I had evidence a child was being abused I would go to the police. If I didn't and the abuse continued or more children were abused because if I didn't I would consider myself as guilty as the abuser. You seem to think reporting a crime equates to condemning someone and forget there is investigation and if evidence is found then a trial in between those 2 things.

 

[John53]

That Royal Commission held enquiry about child abuse, seeking information from all manner of institutions such as YMCA, Scouts, Religious schools, Orphanages, Missions, Presbyteries, Confessionals, Rectories, Dance clubs, Defence Training Establishments, Schools, Sport centres, Hobby clubs, Community centres, Cultural and recreational centres, Detention environments and many Religions.

No one claimed any different and none of the members of those organisations posted that the world would be a better place if everyone belonged to their organisation.

After five years of research and enquiry it published its findings with recommendations and guidance for the future.

Yes, one of the points behind it being posted.

The fact that some folks have snatched the odd pages out of the huge report, attempted to show that this was a Criminal Court Case with convictions, magnified the results to appear many times greater and then smashed them into a thread about oppression of a religion across a hostile country can show evidence of determined-agenda in places on this thread.

Completely untrue, the only reason it was posted was because of the claim that world would be a better place if everyone was a JW. A fact you have not acknowledged or commented on. Are you denying me the right to post evidence to show that claim to be false?

One does not need to be a JW to push this kind of approach back.

You didn't even know the royal commission report had been posted until a handful of posts back so give me a break with the knight in shining armour routine. You also fail to acknowledge that I have posted that JW's are no better or worse than any other group of people (on more than 1 occasion I believe).

And it's confusing that your outrage doesn't extend to the Russian Orthodox Church who were accused of being in cahoots with the Russian Government without any evidence being shown.

 

[oldbadger]

No problem, I understand. But I will take note that you did find time to post a not very accurate summation of the thread in the next post.

I had a mass of incoming posts backed up.........
Oh, and I was quoting from the Royal Commission's summing up.
Quite accurate, as well as the thread title and some thread contents.

I wouldn't waste too much time on it though (but that's entirely up to you) because whether the government says I am required to or not won't change what I think I should do morally. If I had evidence a child was being abused I would go to the police.

Evidence? Great........
Allegations? Dodgy........

Do you see the difference in value between the two?

 

[oldbadger]

No one claimed any different and none of the members of those organisations posted that the world would be a better place if everyone belonged to their organisation.

Oh how wicked!
Nearly every advert I see claims a better life or world in one way or another!

You didn't even know the royal commission report had been posted until a handful of posts back so give me a break with the knight in shining armour routine.

That's experience for you.
Read agenda filled stuff, and then go find out.....

 

[SomeRandom]

Must religion divide? Must we cling to tribalism?
Whilst I severely disagree with a lot of JW doctrine, I dunno, my live and let live mentality runs deep. The worst they do is annoy you on a Sunday morning. And as far as "extremists" go, I'd rather have them as my neighbors than some other flavour who wants to use politics or even violence to force my conversion. At least they render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's.
It's one thing to defend oneself, it's quite another to go after a set of usually law abiding worshippers. I mean should we do the same to the Amish because some see their practices as abusive? (Though I think they should really evaluate the Rumspringer event and invistigate ways to make it less traumatic.)

The allegations against the JW can really apply to a great many sects and religious communities. Some even mainstream. Unless there is undeniable abuse, just let them do their thing.

 

[John53]

I had a mass of incoming posts backed up.........

Like I said I understand, it's a pastime not a job. However I did take note you had time to post a not very accurate summation.

Oh, and I was quoting from the Royal Commission's summing up.
Quite accurate, as well as the thread title and some thread contents.

errr no, I disagree.

Evidence? Great........
Allegations? Dodgy........

Do you see the difference in value between the two?

If a child comes to me with allegations that someone sexually abused them then that is the evidence I would take to the authorities. So the answer to your question is no.

 

[John53]

Oh how wicked!

Great! Glad you finally agree. Wait...No?...Sarcasm?....Right?

Nearly every advert I see claims a better life or world in one way or another!

I'm confused, are you claiming this thread is an ad for the JW's?

Do you don your shining armour and mount your white charger to protect the advertising companies from those who dare question their claims with evidence?

That's experience for you.
Read agenda filled stuff, and then go find out.....

I have no idea what you mean, sorry.

 

[oldbadger]

Great! Glad you finally agree. Wait...No?...Sarcasm?....Right?

I'm confused, are you claiming this thread is an ad for the JW's?

Do you don your shining armour and mount your white charger to protect the advertising companies from those who dare question their claims with evidence?

I have no idea what you mean, sorry.

Poor loser?
See ya later.....!

 

[John53]

Poor loser?
See ya later.....!

I don't understand again? Did I offend you by using sarcasm against sarcasm?

 

[12jtartar]

The fact they disagree with the church that is very cosy with Ol' Shirtless Vlad IS the reason. You answered your own question right in the OP. Be mindful of this next time someone tells you about how wonderful Trump is, since he and many of his supporters view OSV as such a role model.

Amoured,
Remember, who is it that the world persecuted, the true Christians or Nominal Christians?? Who did they persecute in Jesus' day?? Was it not Jesus and Christians. Jesus said that it will always be that way, until he comes, 2Timothy 3:12, John 15:18-21, Luke 6:20-26, Hebrews 12:6-8.
If people keep quiet nobody cares what they believe, but witnesses believe that they must help others to learn God’s word so they also can live, so they are persecuted. The churches of Christendom do not want to lose their paying customers, whether they are Christians or not.
Witnesses get no money for their teaching,even though they are all Ordained Ministers, instead they spend their own money for clothes, gasoline, and their valuable TIME, because they love their neighbor as themselves, Matthew 22:36-40, 7:12.
Who else loves their neighbor as they do???

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Amoured,
Remember, who is it that the world persecuted, the true Christians or Nominal Christians?? Who did they persecute in Jesus' day?? Was it not Jesus and Christians. Jesus said that it will always be that way, until he comes, 2Timothy 3:12, John 15:18-21, Luke 6:20-26, Hebrews 12:6-8.
If people keep quiet nobody cares what they believe, but witnesses believe that they must help others to learn God’s word so they also can live, so they are persecuted. The churches of Christendom do not want to lose their paying customers, whether they are Christians or not.
Witnesses get no money for their teaching,even though they are all Ordained Ministers, instead they spend their own money for clothes, gasoline, and their valuable TIME, because they love their neighbor as themselves, Matthew 22:36-40, 7:12.
Who else loves their neighbor as they do???

Kind of missing my point there, but anyway...