Jehovah's Witnesses Knocked on My Door

[savagewind]

A Jehovah's Witness can't or won't answer questions that have and haven't already been answered by their governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

If they are told something is true, they may teach it.
If they haven't been told about something yet, they may not talk about it.

For instance, I want to know why a person who was loyal to Jehovah to the end of his life but because he lived before Jesus lived he can't be resurrected to Heaven. They are sure that he or she can't be, but I see that it is mostly opinion with some little bit of scripture interpretation.

They can't answer the question about bad associations and it is my opinion that their governing body actually uses bad associations to come up with their interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15:33.

To post these is always being called rubbish. It isn't rubbish.

They are being taught NOT to stand up for their faith. They are standing up for their version of God to be sure, but they also put their faith in the meaning of the words. They won't stand up for that so I see their condition is both standing and lying down. Which condition seen from Heaven must be unbelievable!

 

[savagewind]

The Jehovah's Witnesses (and others, to be fair) seem to believe that God is bound by what God has said.

Translate that as you will, but you won't.

 

[Muffled]

Wouldn't a christian who already believes god exists be reading it from a biased perspective, however?

Probably the only true objective reading would come from one who did not have a belief in god nor a disbelief in god.

I believe it is highly unlikely that a different translation could be made for God but then the Jews avoided the name YHVH replacing it with Lord because of the injunction to not use the name in vain. JW's decided every reference to Lord ought to be replaced with an English equivalent of YHVH whether it was a legitimate use or not.

 

[Muffled]

That's an interesting view, and in most things, that way (a truly objective pov) is best. But once that person came across the first miracle, ie., the talking snake.....or maybe reading about the parting of the Red Sea....what do you think they'd conclude?

I believe people who don't believe in God already have preconceived notions about God.

 

[Jumi]

I believe people who don't believe in God already have preconceived notions about God.

Sometimes they do, if they've heard anything said about God, it's likely they have some notion.

 

[12jtartar]

As with such groups the WT witness expresses what the leadership tell them to say. If they begin to think for themselves the psychological battle of believing what their intelligence is saying gives way to family ties and community.

I had an opportunity to spend some time with one such person a while back and for all the questions which could not be refuted adequately with any fair sense of reply, it was admitted by him that though he had no answer to what was asked of the WT misinterpretation of even the NWT, he said, in so many words, he was not going to give up believing what they taught.

hughwatt,
One thing to remember, every one of Jehovah’s Witnesses are Ordained Ministers. There is no such thing as Sacerdotalism. It takes much study to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, because, before you can be baptized as one you must be able to explain many things from the Bible. What other religion is there that everyone is an ordained minister? In other religions all you have to do is attend the meetings, and most know nothing about the Bible, they believe all that stuff we will let the preacher handle that. We will just listen to his sermons, that is unless he makes us uncomfortable by requiring us to obey what the Bible says, James 1:22-25.
The person you spoke about was not a baptized witness, because all witnesses can tell you why they are Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the truth they base their belief on, just as the Bible says all Christians should be able to do, 1Peter 3:15,16. All baptized witnesses know the Bible well and follow what it says, 1Peter 2:21, 1John 2:4. If a person claims to be a Christian, and does not obey Jesus, he is a nominal Christian, and not acceptable to God, Titus 1:16. Nominal Christians, actually cause people in other religions Blaspheme the Name of God, because they claim to be a follower of Christ, but do not obey Him, Romans 2:23,24. To God, those who claim to be Christians, but who are not are worse than an unbeliever, 2Thessalonians 1:6-10.
A very important thing to remember, true Christians are hated by all the people of the world, Matthew 10:22, 24:9, just as Jesus was, John 15:18-20, Luke 6:22-26. Whatever religion you belong to, are you hated by all the world, as Jesus was and are you spoken well of?? If you are you are part of the world, John 17:16, James 4:4.

 

[Anto]

Hello, what does NWT stand for?

New World Translation. It's the 'official Bible' for JW's.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

hughwatt,
One thing to remember, every one of Jehovah’s Witnesses are Ordained Ministers. There is no such thing as Sacerdotalism. It takes much study to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, because, before you can be baptized as one you must be able to explain many things from the Bible. What other religion is there that everyone is an ordained minister?

The Quakers. They generally believe in "a priesthood of all believers."

And in the LDS, virtually every man and teenage boy is a priest.

 

[hughwatt]

hughwatt,
One thing to remember, every one of Jehovah’s Witnesses are Ordained Ministers. There is no such thing as Sacerdotalism. It takes much study to become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, because, before you can be baptized as one you must be able to explain many things from the Bible. What other religion is there that everyone is an ordained minister? In other religions all you have to do is attend the meetings, and most know nothing about the Bible, they believe all that stuff we will let the preacher handle that. We will just listen to his sermons, that is unless he makes us uncomfortable by requiring us to obey what the Bible says, James 1:22-25.
The person you spoke about was not a baptized witness, because all witnesses can tell you why they are Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the truth they base their belief on, just as the Bible says all Christians should be able to do, 1Peter 3:15,16. All baptized witnesses know the Bible well and follow what it says, 1Peter 2:21, 1John 2:4. If a person claims to be a Christian, and does not obey Jesus, he is a nominal Christian, and not acceptable to God, Titus 1:16. Nominal Christians, actually cause people in other religions Blaspheme the Name of God, because they claim to be a follower of Christ, but do not obey Him, Romans 2:23,24. To God, those who claim to be Christians, but who are not are worse than an unbeliever, 2Thessalonians 1:6-10.
A very important thing to remember, true Christians are hated by all the people of the world, Matthew 10:22, 24:9, just as Jesus was, John 15:18-20, Luke 6:22-26. Whatever religion you belong to, are you hated by all the world, as Jesus was and are you spoken well of?? If you are you are part of the world, John 17:16, James 4:4.

Not sure why I never got this alert and others just came through, but... A JW does not study what the Bible teaches per se but rather what the WTS says about it. There's a big difference. It's no different from the Mormons.

 

[savagewind]

Not sure why I never got this alert and others just came through, but... A JW does not study what the Bible teaches per se but rather what the WTS says about it. There's a big difference. It's no different from the Mormons.

This is true. It has been an official stance of the governing body that Jehovah's Witnesses should not study the Bible without the Watchtower. For Jehovah's Witnesses to meet to discuss the Bible together outside the prescribed program is forbidden them.

 

[Katzpur]

Not sure why I never got this alert and others just came through, but... A JW does not study what the Bible teaches per se but rather what the WTS says about it. There's a big difference. It's no different from the Mormons.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Mormons study the Bible in depth, just the same as other Christian denominations do. As a matter of fact, a number of studies have shown that Mormons rank higher than all other Christians in their knowledge of the Bible. Of course, every Christian group may interpret certain passages differently. Baptists will read one passage and claim it means one thing, and Episcopalians will read the same passage and claim it means something else. I have never been to a Jehovah's Witnesses church service (by whatever name they refer to it). Have you been to a Mormon one?

 

[hughwatt]

That's absolutely ridiculous. Mormons study the Bible in depth, just the same as other Christian denominations do. As a matter of fact, a number of studies have shown that Mormons rank higher than all other Christians in their knowledge of the Bible. Of course, every Christian group may interpret certain passages differently. Baptists will read one passage and claim it means one thing, and Episcopalians will read the same passage and claim it means something else. I have never been to a Jehovah's Witnesses church service (by whatever name they refer to it). Have you been to a Mormon one?

Then explain how God was once Adam and Adam became God.

 

[Katzpur]

Then explain how God was once Adam and Adam became God.

What a silly question. God never was Adam and Adam never was God. Now I have one for you: Why the compulsion for misrepresenting other people's beliefs? There's got to be something gained by it, but I can't figure out what.

 

[siti]

For Jehovah's Witnesses to meet to discuss the Bible together outside the prescribed program is forbidden them.

That is just completely untrue.

 

[savagewind]

That is just completely untrue.

I don't understand. Is independent study some new light? I am not the one to read through their millions and billions and trillions of words to find the proof, so, whatever.

 

[savagewind]

That is just completely untrue.

Can you prove it?

Independent study is forbidden for JWs. They use "do not forge ahead" scripture to prove it. I can look it up for you, if you want me to.

 

[siti]

I was a JW for over a decade - I was never once forbidden to study the Bible individually or with others 'outside the prescribed program' and I did. JW 'thought control' is far more subtle than that and its methods are by no means restricted to the WT - almost all Christian denominations - save a handful of the more enlightened and liberal ones (like the Quakers and the UU Church for example) - have 'official' statements of belief that the members are expected to subscribe to - the only real difference is the consistency and severity of the measures with which these official 'creeds' are defended against internal dissent and criticism.

Now you cite the evidence on which you base your claim that such 'unofficial' discussion of the Bible is prohibited.

 

[savagewind]

I was a JW for over a decade - I was never once forbidden to study the Bible individually or with others 'outside the prescribed program' and I did. JW 'thought control' is far more subtle than that and its methods are by no means restricted to the WT - almost all Christian denominations - save a handful of the more enlightened and liberal ones (like the Quakers and the UU Church for example) - have 'official' statements of belief that the members are expected to subscribe to - the only real difference is the consistency and severity of the measures with which these official 'creeds' are defended against internal dissent and criticism.

Now you cite the evidence on which you base your claim that such 'unofficial' discussion of the Bible is prohibited.

http://www.witforjesus.org/downloads/english/pdfs/jehovahs-witness/bibleread/kmp3.pdf

 

[savagewind]

OK @siti Maybe, "forbidden" is extreme. Independent study is frowned upon and warned about. But, because they presume to speak for Jehovah, frowned upon meant forbidden, imho.

 

[siti]

OK @siti Maybe, "forbidden" is extreme. Independent study is frowned upon and warned about. But, because they presume to speak for Jehovah, frowned upon meant forbidden, imho.

"Forbidden" is far too strong to express a lack of official endorsement and a recommendation. Whether someone reads that as 'forbidden' - as you suggest - is a matter of personal interpretation not official WT policy. I personally would not have liked that article in the Kingdom Ministry even when I was a JW (long before 2007) but I certainly would not have taken it as a blanket prohibition on private/independent study.