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Jehovah's Witnesses
- Thread starter dan
- Start date
SpiritualSon
Member
dan said:
God is one in Person and in the Essence,and that God is Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Harry
KBC1963
Active Member
And just how did God intend it?
Hmmm I guess you haven't read the bible either then have you;
Ex 20:8
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Ex 20:9
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Ex 20:10
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Ex 20:11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Hmmm I guess you haven't read the bible either then have you;
Ex 20:8
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Ex 20:9
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Ex 20:10
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Ex 20:11
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
KBC1963
Active Member
ok we shall try plain extended english.
If you follow jehovah witnesses and worship on sunday instead of saturday then you are following the catholic church and not obeying GOD's command to sabbath on the seventh day and this is but one thing in a long list of problems for witnesses but there are a lot less problems for them than Latter-day Saints but oh well wrong is wrong satan just wasn't very efficient at covering the problems with Latter-day Saints as he was with other religions.
If you follow jehovah witnesses and worship on sunday instead of saturday then you are following the catholic church and not obeying GOD's command to sabbath on the seventh day and this is but one thing in a long list of problems for witnesses but there are a lot less problems for them than Latter-day Saints but oh well wrong is wrong satan just wasn't very efficient at covering the problems with Latter-day Saints as he was with other religions.
That's a very offensive stance to take in Christ's eyes. If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Jehovah's Witnesses are both Satanic wouldn't they fall into that category of a house being divided against itself that Christ condemned? He said that the Devil could not preach Christ's name, otherwise he would be destroying himself, and the Devil won't do that. Maybe you're the one who hasn't read the Bible.
Are you a Seventh Day Adventist? Did you know that the founder of that church was Joseph Smith's secretary? She was P.O'd because she couldn't have the priesthood (remind you of Korah, Dathan and Abiram?), so she left and started her own church, now known as the Seventh Day Adventists, where women can have the priesthood (and she even took the Word of Wisdom with her).
Christ changed the Sabbath to Sunday in order to conmemorate His resurrection. Saturday was to remember the Creation, but Christ's resurrection is much more important.
If you'd like to take your Mormon concerns over to the thread about them you're more than welcome.
If you're going to attack only the J.W.s fo having Sunday as their Sabbath you're going to have to branch out to, oh, say, every other branch of Christianity as well; and not just Catholicism.
Are you a Seventh Day Adventist? Did you know that the founder of that church was Joseph Smith's secretary? She was P.O'd because she couldn't have the priesthood (remind you of Korah, Dathan and Abiram?), so she left and started her own church, now known as the Seventh Day Adventists, where women can have the priesthood (and she even took the Word of Wisdom with her).
Christ changed the Sabbath to Sunday in order to conmemorate His resurrection. Saturday was to remember the Creation, but Christ's resurrection is much more important.
If you'd like to take your Mormon concerns over to the thread about them you're more than welcome.
If you're going to attack only the J.W.s fo having Sunday as their Sabbath you're going to have to branch out to, oh, say, every other branch of Christianity as well; and not just Catholicism.
KBC1963
Active Member
Is my stance offensive? Is it wrong to point out evil? it appears that my stance is justified if I see anyone that doesnt follow GOD as he has written;
Eph 5:10
Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
2Ti 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Tit 1:10
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
Tit 1:11
Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
Tit 1:12
One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
Tit 1:13
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Tit 1:14
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Tit 1:15
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Tit 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Eph 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.
And how do I know how to judge what is right and what is wrong:
2Jo 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10
¶ If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jo 1:11
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Here is how you know that in the end there will be many that thought they were doing GOD's work but alas......
Mt 7:21
¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mt 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mt 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
2Jo 1:6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?
Ummmm nope It has been determined that they also do not obey GOD's will as it is written.
[Christ changed the Sabbath to Sunday]
Did he really? how about you show me where it says this because I have read from end to end many times and he only ever taught how to OBEY the sabbath since he is the LORD of the sabbath as well.
[If you're going to attack only the J.W.s for having Sunday as their Sabbath you're going to have to branch out to, oh, say, every other branch of Christianity as well; and not just Catholicism]
Now your getting the idea! any religion that doesn't obey GOD's laws does not have sound doctrine, doesn't love GOD, because they don't want to learn the real truth since it is easier to follow the commandments of men for them.
but I will ask you, do you think all religions are right? do you think only yours is? what is the ruler you use to measure right and wrong?
Just because someone says they love GOD doesn't make it so look at the catholic priests that have done abominations with little boys and they taught the so called word of GOD daily to people that were more than happy to just sit there and believe without testing to see if that interpretation is true. If any part of your beliefs rely on an interpretation of man then you had better make sure that man knew the truth otherwise you become a blind follower.
[If you'd like to take your Mormon concerns over to the thread about them you're more than welcome].
My refernce to them was only included as far as you yourself had referenced them.
"As with the Latter-day Saints"
Eph 5:10
Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
2Ti 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Tit 1:10
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
Tit 1:11
Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
Tit 1:12
One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
Tit 1:13
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Tit 1:14
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Tit 1:15
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Tit 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Eph 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.
And how do I know how to judge what is right and what is wrong:
2Jo 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10
¶ If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jo 1:11
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
Here is how you know that in the end there will be many that thought they were doing GOD's work but alas......
Mt 7:21
¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mt 7:22
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mt 7:23
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
2Jo 1:6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?
Ummmm nope It has been determined that they also do not obey GOD's will as it is written.
[Christ changed the Sabbath to Sunday]
Did he really? how about you show me where it says this because I have read from end to end many times and he only ever taught how to OBEY the sabbath since he is the LORD of the sabbath as well.
[If you're going to attack only the J.W.s for having Sunday as their Sabbath you're going to have to branch out to, oh, say, every other branch of Christianity as well; and not just Catholicism]
Now your getting the idea! any religion that doesn't obey GOD's laws does not have sound doctrine, doesn't love GOD, because they don't want to learn the real truth since it is easier to follow the commandments of men for them.
but I will ask you, do you think all religions are right? do you think only yours is? what is the ruler you use to measure right and wrong?
Just because someone says they love GOD doesn't make it so look at the catholic priests that have done abominations with little boys and they taught the so called word of GOD daily to people that were more than happy to just sit there and believe without testing to see if that interpretation is true. If any part of your beliefs rely on an interpretation of man then you had better make sure that man knew the truth otherwise you become a blind follower.
[If you'd like to take your Mormon concerns over to the thread about them you're more than welcome].
My refernce to them was only included as far as you yourself had referenced them.
"As with the Latter-day Saints"
KBC1963
Active Member
[If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Jehovah's Witnesses are both Satanic wouldn't they fall into that category of a house being divided against itself that Christ condemned? He said that the Devil could not preach Christ's name, otherwise he would be destroying himself, and the Devil won't do that]
I thought I might answer this one as a separate note since the other seemed a bit long when I got to this.
Your interpretation of the verse is near correct but just a bit off and that is normal since that is the answer given by many, the part you are missing is this, if the devil did indeed teach the absolute truth about GOD / CHRIST then yes that interpretation is absolutly correct, however what would satan be doing if he could mix in just enough lies with the truth so that you would believe him? all he has to make you do is disobey GOD in one form or another and he has you, so of a truth he indeed won't teach the absolute truth because he doesn't win that way, but you should know that he always twists the word of GOD to his own purposes just as he did in Genesis. here is just a bit of support on what satan is prophsied to do in these latter times:
Da 7:25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Here is a similar situation that GOD warned Israel about and it applies even more to us in our time:
Jer 29:8
¶ For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.
Jer 29:9
For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD.
There is Satan at work back among the Israelites saying this or that in the name of GOD, but it is deceit.
Jer 9:4
Take ye heed every one of his neighbour, and trust ye not in any brother: for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbour will walk with slanders.
Jer 9:5
And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.
Zec 13:3
And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Here we have CHRIST's own words concerning our times and the deceivers out there;
Mt 24:4
¶ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mt 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Many people have misunderstood that verse to mean that some individuals would come to us saying that they were christ, but he did state it correctly when he said "shall come in my name", how many people today come to you saying "we believe in CHRIST"? in other words they are coming to you in CHRISTS name? If you look closely at the second verse CHRIST says " and shall deceive many", he doesn't lie, a great many today are deceived by those who come in CHRIST's name, how many people are decieved by someone that says he is CHRIST in our modern world? almost none would ever believe if someone came to them saying that they as a person were christ, think about it, if I told you I was CHRIST would you believe me and follow me? Satan knows this he's not stupid and he is a master at deceiving even up to GOD elect people as this verse says:
Mt 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
and just so you might understand the extent that satan has been able to decieve man look at this verse:
Mt 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
He is literally saying that unless he shortened these end times then no one would be saved and all this because of Satans deceits which because it comes in CHRIST's name is believed by the vast majority that hear it.
So now you can believe as you wish just remember I didn't in any way, shape or form tell you to do anything other than what GOD tells you to do in the bible and you can check everything just as the bible tells you to do, to determine if some one is a liar or not.
I thought I might answer this one as a separate note since the other seemed a bit long when I got to this.
Your interpretation of the verse is near correct but just a bit off and that is normal since that is the answer given by many, the part you are missing is this, if the devil did indeed teach the absolute truth about GOD / CHRIST then yes that interpretation is absolutly correct, however what would satan be doing if he could mix in just enough lies with the truth so that you would believe him? all he has to make you do is disobey GOD in one form or another and he has you, so of a truth he indeed won't teach the absolute truth because he doesn't win that way, but you should know that he always twists the word of GOD to his own purposes just as he did in Genesis. here is just a bit of support on what satan is prophsied to do in these latter times:
Da 7:25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Here is a similar situation that GOD warned Israel about and it applies even more to us in our time:
Jer 29:8
¶ For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Let not your prophets and your diviners, that be in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed.
Jer 29:9
For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them, saith the LORD.
There is Satan at work back among the Israelites saying this or that in the name of GOD, but it is deceit.
Jer 9:4
Take ye heed every one of his neighbour, and trust ye not in any brother: for every brother will utterly supplant, and every neighbour will walk with slanders.
Jer 9:5
And they will deceive every one his neighbour, and will not speak the truth: they have taught their tongue to speak lies, and weary themselves to commit iniquity.
Zec 13:3
And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
Here we have CHRIST's own words concerning our times and the deceivers out there;
Mt 24:4
¶ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mt 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Many people have misunderstood that verse to mean that some individuals would come to us saying that they were christ, but he did state it correctly when he said "shall come in my name", how many people today come to you saying "we believe in CHRIST"? in other words they are coming to you in CHRISTS name? If you look closely at the second verse CHRIST says " and shall deceive many", he doesn't lie, a great many today are deceived by those who come in CHRIST's name, how many people are decieved by someone that says he is CHRIST in our modern world? almost none would ever believe if someone came to them saying that they as a person were christ, think about it, if I told you I was CHRIST would you believe me and follow me? Satan knows this he's not stupid and he is a master at deceiving even up to GOD elect people as this verse says:
Mt 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
and just so you might understand the extent that satan has been able to decieve man look at this verse:
Mt 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
He is literally saying that unless he shortened these end times then no one would be saved and all this because of Satans deceits which because it comes in CHRIST's name is believed by the vast majority that hear it.
So now you can believe as you wish just remember I didn't in any way, shape or form tell you to do anything other than what GOD tells you to do in the bible and you can check everything just as the bible tells you to do, to determine if some one is a liar or not.
I understood Jehovah's Witnesses did not subscribe to the divinity of Christ--Christ is somehow inferior to God the Father and was created by God the Father, rather than begotten.
If so, then they would qualify as a cult, and have serious doctrinal problems.
However, I believe they do some good in the world; I do question their message.
If so, then they would qualify as a cult, and have serious doctrinal problems.
However, I believe they do some good in the world; I do question their message.
IBCrootbeer, or whatever (I don't understand the whole numbers in the name thing), You're interpreting the scriptures in a circular way. Your proof from the scriptures is based on an interpretation that rests on the veracity of your doctrine, so there's no way to confirm the validity of your interpretation.
You must show me you understand true doctrine before I will by the whole righteous indignation bit; and I'm not convinced by your interpretations.
You must show me you understand true doctrine before I will by the whole righteous indignation bit; and I'm not convinced by your interpretations.
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
I may be wrong, but didn't sunday become the first day of the week far after christ? Wasn't monday the first day of the week back during the time when the bible was written? (by men I might add) So that would mean sunday is the seventh day, not saturday. I remember reading that somewhere, I will do more research just to make sure. Also the bible doesn't say that it has to be the last day, the sabbath is ever seventh day. Just because now its not the last day doesn't negate the fact that it is every seventh day.
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
But it never says that it was saturday, only the seventh day. Sunday was always a day of religious connotation. Even back in pagan times, and we all know that christianity has many pagan rituals and ideas. Just a thought.
The Jewish calendar records it as Saturday. Everyone knows it was Saturday. IN the Patriarchal times it was actually whatever day of the week was available for worship, but it was later nailed down to Saturday. The word Saturday comes from the word Sabbath. In Spanish they are the same word.
Master Vigil
Well-Known Member
Is it true that sunday now is not really recognized as the sabbath, but as something else. I heard that somewhere but can't remember.
We have no way of knowing how the days of the week were named in the earliest times, so the Saturday/Sunday problem is rather recent. Only in 321 c.e., the emperor Constantin ordered that the names of the planets (and their corresponding gods) should be used. Everything other than today's accepted practices would be interesting only to the most hard-core literalists.
Saturday, the day of Saturn (absolutely nothing to do with Sabbath!) was the day associated with the planet Saturn and the Roman agricultural god etc.
Saturday, the day of Saturn (absolutely nothing to do with Sabbath!) was the day associated with the planet Saturn and the Roman agricultural god etc.