Jesus, a Jewish "Hippie"?

[metis]

Just a reminder: everything written about Jesus was culled from apologists writing decades after his purported outreach. What can be claimed to be known - using any reasonable definition of the term - is exceedingly little.

I agree to a point, but we can also pick up some commonality about his personality even if we're not going to be 100% accurate. He attracted quite a following, and there had to be a reason for that.

 

[metis]

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and for the republic for which it stands...".

This is a question that could be asked, including someone who is a Christian, namely is this compatible with the Gospel? After all, Jesus said we cannot "serve two masters" and that we should "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's". In elementary school we said this every morning, but I didn't question it then.

This kind of challenge to the status quo sorta fits into the hippie mentality, so what do you think even if you are not American?

[tomorrow I will present another]​

 

[Aupmanyav]

Whaddya think?

He was more like a dooms-day cult leader.

"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
But I tell you, on the day of judgment it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon than for you.
And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades.
For if the deeds of power done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
But I tell you that on the day of judgment it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom than for you.”

 

[Wildswanderer]

Not at all. Jesus certainly wasn't a "conservative" as he challenged the status quo, and he certainly wasn't a dog-eat-dog capitalist because he believed in compassion and helping all in need.

Thus, maybe you should heed your own words.

I never said he was necessarily either of those things. But trying to make him a hippie is ridiculous.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Hippies certainly weren't "anti-social", plus they did emphasize having a "big heart" and being "progressive".

Along with free love and lots of drugs. .

 

[metis]

He was more like a dooms-day cult leader.

Even though the words you use "sound" insulting, the reality is that you are spot on. Christianity started out as a Jewish cult based on one man, Jesus, and he believed that end-times were coming.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

At the risk of derailing the thread ...

I agree to a point, but we can also pick up some commonality about his personality even if we're not going to be 100% accurate.

I do not see how. John is idiosyncratic, while the Synoptics might be characterized as plagiarism and redaction at the service of somewhat differing audiences - see Udo Schnelle. And then we have apocrypha from which one can infer almost anything.

In fact, one might suggest that it is precisely our inability to make sound inference that led Kirby to such subtitles as:

1. Jesus the Myth
2. Jesus the Hellenistic Hero
3. Jesus the Revolutionary
4. Jesus the Wisdom
5. Jesus the Nan of the Spirit
6. Jesus the Prophet of Social Change
7. Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet
8. Jesus the Savior

He attracted quite a following, and there had to be a reason for that.

From what little evidence we have, it seems that this following is to be found primarily in the diaspora circa the mid-50's, while the successes and failures of the Jerusalem church are known - if at all - courtesy of the author of Acts.​

 

[metis]

I never said he was necessarily either of those things. But trying to make him a hippie is ridiculous.

It's a "comparison" as I pointed out from the get-go.

 

[metis]

Along with free love and lots of drugs. .

I negated that at the very beginning of this thread, so maybe go back and read it.

 

[Wildswanderer]

It's a "comparison" as I pointed out from the get-go.

A ridiculous one.

 

[metis]

At the risk of derailing the thread ...

I do not see how. John is idiosyncratic, while the Synoptics might be characterized as plagiarism and redaction at the service of somewhat differing audiences - see Udo Schnelle. And then we have apocrypha from which one can infer almost anything.

In fact, one might suggest that it is precisely our inability to make sound inference that led Kirby to such subtitles as:

1. Jesus the Myth
2. Jesus the Hellenistic Hero
3. Jesus the Revolutionary
4. Jesus the Wisdom
5. Jesus the Nan of the Spirit
6. Jesus the Prophet of Social Change
7. Jesus the Apocalyptic Prophet
8. Jesus the Savior

From what little evidence we have, it seems that this following is to be found primarily in the diaspora circa the mid-50's, while the successes and failures of the Jerusalem church are known - if at all - courtesy of the author of Acts.​

Again, I totally agree that any conclusion of any type is problematic but, otoh, we are not absent of at least some evidence. So, we can draw what we may think maybe the case with him even if we're not certain that it is actually the case in the final analysis.

Actually, that approach is quite compatible with science, btw.

 

[metis]

A ridiculous one.

Thank you for your opinion, although I strongly get the feeling that your opinion is highly influenced by your own politics-- com se com sa.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

A ridiculous one.

What is truly ridiculous is you silly efforts to pick a fight.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Thank you for your opinion, although I strongly get the feeling that your opinion is highly influenced by your own politics-- com se com sa.

It's got zip to do with politics. Jesus wasn't protesting against society, he was bringing light into a dark world. He rarely even commented on social issues.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Again, I totally agree that any conclusion of any type is problematic but, otoh, we are not absent of at least some evidence. So, we can draw what we may think maybe the case with him even if we're not certain that it is actually the case in the final analysis.

Actually, that approach is quite compatible with science, btw.

This is probably best left to some other thread, but I agree that abduction (Inference to Best Explanation) is a reasonable endeavor. Furthermore, as a San Francisco resident in the mid-60's, I can attest to the fact that "Hippie" was a rather broad category. Take care, my friend.

 

[metis]

It's got zip to do with politics. Jesus wasn't protesting against society, he was bringing light into a dark world. He rarely even commented on social issues.

You might actually reread the Gospel as his message went well beyond just preaching about faith. Maybe try reading the Sermon On the Mount again and understanding the full parameters of what Jesus is saying.

 

[metis]

Take care, my friend.

Ditto, and how are you feeling?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Ditto, and how are you feeling?

I've been better -- and will be again. Thanks for asking.

 

[pearl]

Just a reminder: everything written about Jesus was culled from apologists writing decades after his purported outreach. What can be claimed to be known - using any reasonable definition of the term - is exceedingly little.

Actually, that is not altogether true. Most scholars and the Church accept a 'two source' theory for the compilation of the Gospels. "Q" Quelle, source, precedes the written Gospels with added narrative.
This 'source' has no narrative just a collection of sayings of Jesus. The entirety of Christian Scripture is the product of post resurrection faith. And that is its purpose, not biographical nor historical, but faith.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You might actually reread the Gospel as his message went well beyond just preaching about faith. Maybe try reading the Sermon On the Mount again and understanding the full parameters of what Jesus is saying.

He was all about the kingdom. Not about social justice.