Jesus, a Jewish "Hippie"?

[Jayhawker Soule]

Who could have guessed that this thread would go off the rails? ​

 

[Jolly]

And yet he came to "fulfill the law". Meaning it was no longer necessary. As he supercedes them. Matt 5:17

Wrong that is the opinion of some of his followers that is not what Jeaus taught

As he says Matt 5.17 "do not imagine that I have come to abolish the law...."

If anything His completion of the law is an effort in ending the lies of the oral Torah. Jesus in no way ends the law- to do so would be against the very teaching the Torah gives.

 

[Rival]

If anything His completion of the law is an effort in ending the lies of the oral Torah

You mean the Oral Torah Jesus follows?

 

[Wildswanderer]

America talks a good game, but it's never been a paragon of freedom and justice, either at home or abroad.

Jesus, as generally depicted, stood for kindness, love, compassion, and brotherhood --Hippie values.
Individual freedom? I don't think that's what orthodox Jews were all about.

You don't have to guess... This is what he said his mission was:

"The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me, because the LORD has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,"

 

[metis]

He was all about the kingdom. Not about social justice.

Nope, as most that's mentioned in the Sermon deals with how we are to deal with others with our faith today, thus you are stripping the Gospel of some very important content.

 

[metis]

Christians are shocked that I blaspheme Jesus (and Christ, and God) by suggesting that perhaps Catholic priests should stop raping little boys. I suppose that they think that raping little boys is part of their faith. It isn't.

I object to those who espouse Christianity, but don't practice it.

Christianity, itself, is very good, but the way Christians choose to "not" practice it, it is not.

Jesus was Jewish, and largely followed Jewish laws. But, he made things simpler for Christians. . .no bris. . . no unusual hair cuts. . . no dietary restrictions (just occasionally drink the blood of Jesus or eat the flesh of Jesus, symbolically, as a reminder of the faith).

Christians are supposed to follow the 10 commandments of the old testament.

But, lately, those have become the 10 suggestions (not commandments from God). Thus God's words "thou shalt not kill" has been changed to "these colors (red, white, and blue) don't run" and "don't cut and run" and "we have to fight the al Qaeda on their soil, not ours," and "the al Qaeda posts antiwar propaganda on the internet" (so ignore anyone who wants to obey God), and "the French are cowards" (for not supporting W. Bush's war in Iraq), etc. President W. Bush double dog dared us to fight and kill. He scared us with Orange alerts to kill North Koreans who "might be" developing the atomic bomb for their own protection. He scared us with lies about Niger selling yellow-cake Uranium to Iraq, to start a new war in Niger to steal their resources, and justify his war against Iraq (his plan failed when Wilson refused to lie to start another war, so W. Bush and Cheney revealed the secret identity of Wilson's CIA wife, Valery Plame, for punishment for Wilson not lying, and that resulted in the assassination of CIA agents seen associating with Plame).

Christians have been lying and fearmongering to start illegal wars, and hiding torture camps from the press, from the public, and from most of Congress. (Some Congressmen/women knew about the torture in Guantanamo, and in Iraq, and on ships on the Indian Ocean, but they were under oath not to reveal military secrets to the public or to the rest of Congress).

I am deeply concerned that boy-raping priests don't follow the Christian faith. I am deeply concerned that the Religious Right elected W. Bush, then, once he was president, they elected him to be the leader of the Religious Right, then he became a war criminal (with illegal wars against peaceful nations (who, at the time, were our allies), and made torture camps.

I am not deeply concerned that Jesus was a hippy and a Socialist.

Jesus healed regular people (not just the rich), and didn't ask for payment. This was like univeral health care (Obamacare), which seeks to provide cures to everyone (except it costs the middle class a lot, it's free to the rich who have loopholes, and it pays for the poor). Obamacare was supposed to lower the cost of medicine, but pharmaceudical companies are reaping huge profits as the sick are forced to pay huge amounts. This form of health care (Obamacare) is almost socialized medicine (Socialism). Except that the rich get free care and the working middle class pay for it all while rich pharaceudical companies make huge profits.

Hippies were supposed to have free love. Many kids were born out of wedlock and raised by the entire group. Food and narcotics were shared with all. Communes didn't work well because everyone wanted free food, but few were willing to tend farms to get it.

It is clear that many men followed Jesus. It is not clear that Jesus had many women followers, nor that he had sexual relations with any of them. There are some rumors.

Hippies are sometimes nomadic (settling for a while in various places). Jesus (and his troop) often moved about.

Though Jesus, by trade, was a carpenter, and he preached Judaism (and founded Christianity), he didn't seem to have a steady job. Hippies, too, had skills, and worked for brief amounts of time.

I (and God) would like to end wars, torture camps, lies, and rapes of little boys. I (and God) don't particularly care about the hippy lifestyle of Jesus.

So well said, imo!

 

[metis]

What does America officially stand for? Freedom and justice for each individual. Where does Jesus oppose this ideal?

You missed the point.

 

[metis]

Counterculture advice maybe?

I think to a certain extent it was.

 

[metis]

First of all, thanks for the comments even though it did get sidetracked. Sorry that I don't have time to respond to most of them.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You missed the point.

No I think you did.

 

[metis]

Make Love, Not War

For those who remember history of the 1960's-70's, the Vietnam "War" was huge with the hippie movement in general as the general belief was that we were simply wrong by going into it and then staying in it so long. Also, weapons like Agent Orange, napalm, blanket bombing in heavy civilian areas, etc, disgusted so many. Remember the picture of the young Vietnamese girl running naked down a dirt path crying her eyes out? That picture alone turned so many stomachs and the overall sentiment in favor of being there rapidly waned.

So, how could a self-proclaimed "Christian country" do this? We criticize Putin for what he is doing in the Ukraine but we ourselves did some terrible things as well. Were the hippies mostly right on this, I ask?

As far as the strong emphasis on Love is concerned, was that wrong? Trouble with the term by itself is it doesn't define which form of love is being referred to. As far as "free love" is concerned, I never brought into it as far as having sexual intercourse is concerned, but short of that I had no guilt. I didn't like "going steady", thus I "played the field". Most of the hippies I knew really weren't promiscuous, but the ones who did got a lot of attention by the press and the "religious right" especially. What do you think?

Anyhow, I'll stop here and will introduce another general hippie trait tomorrow.

 

[metis]

No I think you did.

Since I'm the one who initiated the topic and post, I very much know what I posted and why. It seems to me all you seemingly want to do is to nit-pick no matter what I may post. If I'm your hang-up, then maybe expand your interests.

 

[pearl]

So, how could a self-proclaimed "Christian country" do this? We criticize Putin for what he is doing in the Ukraine but we ourselves did some terrible things as well. Were the hippies mostly right on this, I ask?

They were right on Nam being unjust war, but it was carried too far, when those they blamed and tried to shame, and strip them of their dignity, was not the powers that be, but the men who carried out the mission given them.

 

[metis]

They were right on Nam being unjust war, but it was carried too far, when those they blamed and tried to shame, and strip them of their dignity, was not the powers that be, but the men who carried out the mission given them.

I totally agree, and one of them was and is a very close friend of mine. The reality is that many, including he, got drafted thus didn't have much a choice.

 

[pearl]

I totally agree, and one of them was and is a very close friend of mine. The reality is that many, including he, got drafted thus didn't have much a choice.

As so many of them did. I remember John Kerry severely criticized because he told kids to make sure they continue on to college, otherwise.....
One very positive accomplishments of the 'hippies' was the end of the draft,

 

[Jolly]

You mean the Oral Torah Jesus follows?

Give one example of jesus ever keeping an oral Torah teaching and not denouncing it as a tradition of the pharisees

 

[metis]

Give one example of jesus ever keeping an oral Torah teaching and not denouncing it as a tradition of the pharisees

Love of God and neighbor is essentially the same as Hillel the Elder's commentary. The concept of heaven is from the Pharisee tradition as it is not found in Torah. Etc.

 

[Jolly]

Love of God and neighbor is essentially the same as Hillel the Elder's commentary.

Never heard such nonsense.

Love you God and love your neighbour are Both Torah teaching as is love of the stranger. ***STAFF EDIT***

Deuteronomy 6:5: You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

The concept of heaven is from the Pharisee tradition as it is not found in Torah. Etc.

Wrong, while generally the scriptures speak of sheol there is reference to Heaven in the Psalms and Daniel describes heaven in his visions, Elijah rises on a tower of fire into heaven, in the book of Job the sons of God, in heaven speak with God. So no heaven is not an invention of the pharisees, it is very much referenced in scriptures repeatedly.

AMOS 9.6 "He builds his lofty palace in the heavens and sets its foundation on the earth"

Jesus actually speaks of 'the kingdom of heaven'(Whick is not the same thing as heaven where you.go.when you die) and actually denounces the Priests and Pharisees for preventing the people entering it.

Infact it appears from the scripture that the pharisees are completely unaware of the existence of kingdom of heaven. Ergo they not only didnt invent heaven, they are actually not even aware that the kingdom that is not of this earth, exists at all.

You can see this in the discussion Jesus has with nicodemus with regards to being born again.

John 3.10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

 

[wizanda]

Whaddya think?

I'd say Yeshua's teachings aligned with the Essenes, who were also like Hippies...

I believe when Yeshua said "be wary of the leaven of the Sadducees, and the Pharisees" (Matthew 16:6), this was in contrast to the Essene Bread, which was the method for making the Shewbread correctly.

The ingredients were the same as Ezekiel's Bread (Ezekiel 4:9), and then when sprouted, it produces ergot, which is why it was then boiled to kill the poisoning, before baking.

We can show that many ancient cultures knew about micro-dosing (Kykeon, Soma, Shewbread, etc) for increased intelligence; whereas alcohol was banned by many cultures for causing irrational thinking.

The Holy Anointing Oil in Exodus 30:23-25, I believe should contain Kaneh Bosem, which is where we get the etymology of cannabis.

Yeshua & the Disciples healed people with the Holy Anointing Oil (Mark 6:13), and the early Church healed with it (James 5:14).

Whereas the Shewbread, and Holy Anointing Oil were only appointed to the Priesthood; Yeshua like David distributed it among everyone...

Saying "that when we fast, anoint ourself; so that God might reward us" (Matthew 6:17).

I'd say the early Church Christ established were more like Hippies, using entheogens to directly connect with God, and to heal; having a commune where they all gave up wealth, and lived as part of a Oneness community.

In my opinion.

 

[metis]

I'd say Yeshua's teachings aligned with the Essenes, who were also like Hippies...

Somewhat, but there are some significant differences.

I'd say the early Church Christ established were more like Hippies, using entheogens to directly connect with God, and to heal; having a commune where they all gave up wealth, and lived as part of a Oneness community.

Well said, imo.