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Jesus and Proselytizing
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
allfoak
Alchemist
It is written that Jesus told people to keep the commandments.
I think he was trying to bring a new Message from God. The conditions of the people had changed so much in the 1,500 or so years since Moses that the Mosaic Covenant along with its 613 laws was no longer relevant. Jesus was right to abrogate the law and the apostles to reinforce the change. In a similar manner after the 2,000 years another message from God is required. The world of empires, slavery, and male domination is increasing an anachronism. Democracy, international cooperation, the oneness of humanity, and the equality of men and woman are among the spiritual principles for this new age.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Jesus loved people into the Kingdom. Today's proselytizing is mostly yelling, screaming and telling people that they are going to hell. Jesus certainly didn't like that aggressiveness among the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Matthew 23:15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. NIV
Matthew 23:15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. NIV
Although NIV uses the English word hell at Matthew 23:15 the word Jesus used was Not hell but Gehenna.
Gehenna was a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed and Not kept burning forever.
So, to me, Jesus was actually saying making them twice as much a child of destruction as they were.
As in the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
To me, according to Matthew 15:9 Jesus disapproved of the tradition of the Pharisees. - Mark 7:1-7,13
So, in other words, then Jesus definitely was Not endorsing the Pharisees' traditions.
Apparently the only ' tradition ', so to speak, Jesus taught was to always remember his day of death - Luke 22:19
Jesus basically went to people who were 'already' part of Judaism.
It wasn't until after his death at Pentecost the way was opened for the Samaritan people, then followed by the way being opened up for the gentile people of the nations, starting with Italian Cornelius, to become part of the Christian congregation - Acts of the Apostles 10
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
I would disagree with this as it's a truly legalistic way to look at this. The only thing required of us is to love each other. So many, scriptures on this, but Ephesians 5 puts it best: "The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love". (By memory, so don't hold it against me if I got a word or more wrong.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
No he didn't.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
No.
He was attempting to enforce existing laws for the Jews, many of which had been dumped by the hellenised priesthood.
But.......... he was strongly against the corrupt practices and money-go-round which surrounded the Temple, its taxes, its charges and its fees connected to the remission of sins. So was John the Baptist, both offering Immersion in the Jordan for the remission of sins as a counter to the Temple excesses.
he taught the samaritan woman at the well and was very pleased with the roman soldier's faith. anyone who was interested in hearing and had ears wasn't welcome?
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
I disagree with this as well. Jesus was not a legalist and took legalists to task all the time. His was the legacy of love.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
No.......... he took hypocrites to task all the time.
He wanted the corruption of the priesthood to end, and a return to true Jewish laws and customs.
Which Jesus?
- the character in the Christian Bible? Yes - he was written to be creating a new religion.
- some actual historic figure? I have no idea... and I'd bet good money that neither does anybody else.
IMO, the Jesus of the Gospels doesn't hold a consistent position on this issue.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
We disagree on this.
I'd say you got it right because of Jesus giving us a NEW commandment at John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for each other as Jesus had.
However, according to Luke 22:19, as part of that love, Jesus wants us to remember the calendar date, of the Jewish month of Nisan the 14th day, as a remembrance of the day of Jesus' death.
That is an annual date of remembrance til Jesus comes. That is Not a so-called Easter, but called as Good Friday.
Jesus' died on a Friday ( Nisan 14 ) but that does Not mean each year that calendar date fall on a Friday.
Just as an anniversary date is Not always on the same day of the week, Jesus' anniversary death date is Not always on a Friday, but Jesus instructed as part of that love for him by keeping a remembrance of him on that calendar date.
- 1 Corinthians 11:25-26
Yes, Jesus had an informal conversation with the woman at the well during his time on Earth.
But according to Matthew 15:24 Jesus was primarily sent to the ' house of Israel '.
As Acts of the Apostles 3:26 mentions that ' first ' ( choice ) was given to Israel.
First, of course would indicate more to follow:
1) After Pentecost, then the door was open to all the rest of the Samaritans.
2) After Pentecost ( after the Samaritans ) then (3) the Roman soldier's faith was recognized at being opened up for the gentile people of the nations. That was Not before Jesus' death. Before Jesus' death the way was first opened up for the Jewish people. They are the ' first ' of Acts 3:26. The rest come after Jesus' resurrection starting with Pentecost.