Jesus and the law

[HouseofIsrael]

Jesus put an end to the sacrificial law not all the laws. God's laws and commandments remains forever and we are to live by them. The purpose of the law is to identify sin so as long as you're under the works of the law (transgressing -working against the law), you're under a curse (Gal. 3:10). It is a sin for a man to take his own life (hanging on a tree -symbolic to suicide) because he didn't give life to himself and that is one of the reasons why Jesus was sacrificed to end the sacrificial law Heb. 10:4 (suicide, killing of bulls and goats to take away one sins -he abolished it etc).

Matt. 5:17-18 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets -I am not come to destroy but to fulfill" Jesus own words.

 

[ChristineES]

I have heard this before. I still believe we are bound by the Ten Commandments but I am never too sure about the rest of the law. But Jesus did pull out 2 laws- Love your God with all your might, your heart, and your soul and love your neighbor as yourself- and say they were most important laws and the rest of the Law could be put in those 2.
Welcome to the RF!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have heard this before. I still believe we are bound by the Ten Commandments but I am never too sure about the rest of the law.

Why the Ten Commandments? Wouldn't they be part of the "Old Law" that Christ tore down and nailed to the cross (Cor 2) or that no longer applies to believers who have "died with Christ" (Rom 7)?

Also, if the Ten Commandments still apply, then why don't Christians still keep Saturday as their day of rest?

 

[linwood]

Jesus put an end to the sacrificial law not all the laws.

Interesting.

By what standard do you separate one from the other?

 

[ChristineES]

Why the Ten Commandments? Wouldn't they be part of the "Old Law" that Christ tore down and nailed to the cross (Cor 2) or that no longer applies to believers who have "died with Christ" (Rom 7)?

Also, if the Ten Commandments still apply, then why don't Christians still keep Saturday as their day of rest?

Most of the Ten Commandments are common sense- not murdering, not cheating on your spouse, honoring your parents, not wanting things you can't have. The first three have to do with God so a person who does not believe in God would not follow it and the fourth- the Sabbath- I never understood why Christians didn't keep it. I think they changed it to Sunday because that was the day Jesus was resurrected. But the rest of them, seems that most religions and faiths and cultures have similar type rules.

 

[ayani]

well, what about Luke 16:16?

The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the Kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

also worth noting is that most Christians do not consider Jesus to be only a man, like us. being born on the earth of the Holy Spirit, He shares in God's nature, power, and attributes like no man born before or since.

He came, essentially, to die, and then to live again. His sacrifice on the cross is not an act of suicide, but a means of breaking the power of death. He had to first die before He could be raised to life again. and because He lives, we too will live who live because of and in Him.

and i totally second ChristineES. in Messiah, the commandments of God are re-expressed as "love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and might, and love your neighbor as yourself". these commands were given for Jewish believers in Messiah, and also non-Jewish believers.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Most of the Ten Commandments are common sense- not murdering, not cheating on your spouse, honoring your parents, not wanting things you can't have.

Okay... so for those, would it be fair to say that they're not necessarily in effect themselves directly so much, but are logical consequences of following Jesus' teachings about loving other people?

The first three have to do with God so a person who does not believe in God would not follow it

Not sure where you're going with that - I wasn't asking whether I should follow the Ten Commandments; I was asking for why you take the interpretation you do. Presumably, you believe in God, right?

 

[ChristineES]

Okay... so for those, would it be fair to say that they're not necessarily in effect themselves directly so much, but are logical consequences of following Jesus' teachings about loving other people?


Not sure where you're going with that - I wasn't asking whether I should follow the Ten Commandments; I was asking for why you take the interpretation you do. Presumably, you believe in God, right?

Usually, if you love someone, you wouldn't want to harm the person- you wouldn't cheat on him or her, you wouldn't steal from them, you wouldn't murder them in cold blood. There are always exceptions, of course, like mercy killings, etc.
And yes, I do believe in God and so I would follow the first three commandments. I was trying to say that a lot of the Commandments are also laws in other cultures, and not just ours. Maybe not all of them- but murder is wrong by virtually all cultures I know about and stealing and bearing false witness is frowned upon by most cultures.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Usually, if you love someone, you wouldn't want to harm the person- you wouldn't cheat on him or her, you wouldn't steal from them, you wouldn't murder them in cold blood. There are always exceptions, of course, like mercy killings, etc.

And yes, I do believe in God and so I would follow the first three commandments. I was trying to say that a lot of the Commandments are also laws in other cultures, and not just ours. Maybe not all of them- but murder is wrong by virtually all cultures I know about and stealing and bearing false witness is frowned upon by most cultures.

But you avoid these sorts of things because of love and other moral principles, not simply because God gave the instruction to Moses on Mount Sinai, right?

 

[ChristineES]

But you avoid these sorts of things because of love and other moral principles, not simply because God gave the instruction to Moses on Mount Sinai, right?

That's true. I don't go around killing people because I don't want to, not just because God says not to, and the same with the other laws.

 

[Oberon]

also worth noting is that most Christians do not consider Jesus to be only a man, like us.

I don't think this is very accurate. Even the catholic church alone (with around a billion followers, far more than any other sect/denomination of christianity) would make this statment false, and there are many other denominations which also believe in the pre-existance and/or divinity of Jesus.

 

[Ben Sinai]

Jesus put an end to the sacrificial law not all the laws. God's laws and commandments remains forever and we are to live by them. The purpose of the law is to identify sin so as long as you're under the works of the law (transgressing -working against the law), you're under a curse (Gal. 3:10). It is a sin for a man to take his own life (hanging on a tree -symbolic to suicide) because he didn't give life to himself and that is one of the reasons why Jesus was sacrificed to end the sacrificial law Heb. 10:4 (suicide, killing of bulls and goats to take away one sins -he abolished it etc).

Matt. 5:17-18 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets -I am not come to destroy but to fulfill" Jesus own words.

I agree to a point. That point is where you use the word abolish. That word holds the meaning that something has been completely done away with. The sacrificial law was not abolished but rather he fulfilled it for those that would believe for sins past and now he, Yahshua, is our priest and is performing perpetuation for the believers once a year on Yom Kippur just as the priest did here when the temple veil was still intact. We see that when he returns he will no longer be performing the priestly duties and not be perpetuating for us so the Temple will be rebuilt and he will set the sons of Zadok in place as the priest and the sacrificial laws will resume along with all the Temple and priest laws. I can quote the verses if you would like but first I want to give you the benefit of allowing you to do your own work.

 

[smitten508]

The word abolish isn't exactly what comes to mind... Fulfill seems to fit better. As for the other laws, I believe those to be fulfilled as well. I follow the 10 commandments because I follow God, his own finger allegedly wrote those laws, so I trust them to be sound. The Sabbath thing is sketchy, and I don't believe God had any particular day in mind so much as had a day of rest for ALL people, Saturday or Sunday for instance.lol. It is true however that Christ says that loving God totally and loving neighbor totally is the whole of the law... In the words of Christian mysticism, "love is the law, love under will."

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I think something that is lost in translation is the fact that the LAW brings death. If we never had the law we would not have sin. If the law was created so that we could have a way of following God, it's ultimate purpose was to be with God.
The problem is as we see it know one could follow the law, because we keep on sinning. Jesus comes along and does everything perfectly, and becomes better than the law. He fulfilled the law in that the Law could not bring us to everlasting life because we kept failing at it.

So, what Jesus offers is a way to eternity through what he did, and not by following the law.

All to often the big picture is lost, we are trying to live for eternity, and following the law just won't get us there. So what? do we abandon the law? No, we just use them as guidelines as we continue to try an be like Jesus, knowing that the law will do us no good, except give us some guidelines to live by as we wait for eternity.

 

[HouseofIsrael]

It was once believed the forgiving of sins was done by the spilling of blood, to make my explanation a little more explicit: before Jesus came it was believed that a person's sin could not be forgiven without water (John -the baptist, baptism) -Jesus ended that because sins are forgiven by the power of God, the Holy Ghost and not the ritual of using water. Therefore, he ended the sacrificial law because it was appropriate by his standards and that of God Almighty. But do keep in mind that he did not end all the laws and commandments of God.

 

[Mr Cloud Harvard 69]

Christians don't keep the sabbath, because the Romans changed the worship day from saturday to sunday. Christians are supposed to keep the sabbath.

 

[Heneni]

The gentiles were never under the OT law and were not placed under the OT law at the coming of chirst.

The OT law was not only the law but the judge of the isrealites. The law judged the people without mercy. And eye for an eye. Thats that.

The gentiles were not under this law therefore was never judged by this law.

The gentiles are under the law of christ. You cannot break christ like you can break a commandment. You can only not believe in the commandment which is to believe in the son, and to do that you have to love him.

Therefore there is only one sin that leads to death...unbelief.

Jesus is our law and our judge and our high priest.

If the OT is still our law and our judge we would need levitical priests to do sacrifices for us

heneni

 

[Poisonshady313]

The OT law was not only the law but the judge of the isrealites. The law judged the people without mercy. And eye for an eye. Thats that.

Wow. You are so incredibly wrong, it's not even funny.

If the OT is still our law and our judge we would need levitical priests to do sacrifices for us

Not familiar with the book of Hosea, are you?

Not familiar with all the times sincere and prayer was enough to acquit the people... like Nineveh, or the people of Israel NOT being destroyed as a result of the golden calf incident.

Your view of the law as being cold and heartless is a view grounded in ignorance.

Because God gave the law, you'd have to believe that God is cold and heartless.

I'm sorry you feel that way about God.

 

[painter49]

But you avoid these sorts of things because of love and other moral principles, not simply because God gave the instruction to Moses on Mount Sinai, right?

Love the lord thy God and thy nieghbor as thyself... we can't mess up if we keep these

 

[seeking the whole truth]

IF you LOVE ME you WILL keep MY COMMANDMENTS!!!!

Thats if you love him..otherwise..carry on!