Jesus did not die on the Cross

[paarsurrey]

Jesus did not die on the Cross. This is a fact which did happen in real life and Quran does not claim that it is first to claim it.

Does it?

Your thoughts please; anybody believing in a religion or no religion.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Some of our friends in another thread want to discuss with reference to Quranic Chapter 3:49 and Quranic Chapter 19:22-26.

We will discuss it from chapter Number.3. Aal-e-`Imran, the first quoted by our friend.

Regards

 

[outhouse]

It is blatantly plagiarized mythology.




Criticism of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Modern critics have criticized Muhammad for preaching beliefs that are incompatible with democracy; Somali-Dutch feminist writer Ayaan Hirsi Ali has called him a "tyrant"[26] and a "pervert".[27] The Dutch Party for Freedom leader Geert Wilders calls Muhammad a "mass murderer and a pedophile".

Criticism of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


the Quran contains verses which are difficult to understand or contradictory.[69]
Some accounts of the history of Islam say there were two verses of the Quran that were allegedly added by Muhammad when he was tricked by Satan (in an incident known as the "Story of the Cranes", later referred to as the "Satanic Verses"). These verses were then retracted at angel Gabriel's behest.[70][71]
The author of the Apology of al-Kindy Abd al-Masih ibn Ishaq al-Kindi (not to be confused with the famed philosopher al-Kindi) claimed that the narratives in the Quran were "all jumbled together and intermingled" and that this was "an evidence that many different hands have been at work therein, and caused discrepancies, adding or cutting out whatever they liked or disliked".[

 

[paarsurrey]

We will look into Surah/Chapter No.3 of Quran from the start, (first set of ten verses) to see threadbare as our friends here in another thread, and also in this thread have suggested:

1. Which verses of this chapter have been copied/plagiarized from Christian Gospels?
2. What argument/s has been given, if any, to prove that “Jesus did not die on the Cross”? And that is the title of this thread.

The Holy Quran : Chapter 3: Aal-e-`Imran

[3:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[3:2] Alif Lam Mim.
[3:3] Allah is He beside Whom there is no God, the Living, the Self-Subsisting and All-Sustaining.
[3:4] He has sent down to thee the Book containing the truth and fulfilling that which precedes it; and He sent down the Torah and the Gospel
[3:5] Before this, as a guidance to the people; and He has sent down the Discrimination. Surely, those who deny the Signs of Allah shall have a severe punishment. And Allah is Mighty, Possessor of the power to requite.
[3:6] Surely, nothing in the earth or in the heaven is hidden from Allah.
[3:7] He it is Who fashions you in the wombs as He wills; there is no God but He, the Mighty, the Wise.
[3:8] He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book; in it there are verses that are decisive in meaning — they are the basis of the Book — and there are others that are susceptible of different interpretations. But those in whose hearts is perversity pursue such thereof as are susceptible of different interpretations, seeking discord and seeking wrong interpretation of it. And none knows its right interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge; they say, ‘We believe in it; the whole is from our Lord.’ — And none heed except those gifted with understanding. —
[3:9] ‘Our Lord, let not our hearts become perverse after Thou hast guided us; and bestow on us mercy from Thyself; surely, Thou alone art the Bestower.
[3:10] ‘Our Lord, Thou wilt certainly assemble mankind together on the Day about which there is no doubt; surely, Allah breaks not His promise.’

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Regards

 

[steeltoes]

No one has any way of knowing, all we have is a storied account.

 

[Father Heathen]

Jesus did not die on the Cross. This is a fact which did happen in real life and Quran does not claim that it is first to claim it.

Does it?

Your thoughts please; anybody believing in a religion or no religion.

Regards

You ask for thoughts, but "Religion X makes claims that conflict with claims made by Religion Y. I am an devout adherent to Religion Y, therefore the claims made by Religion X must be false." really isn't very thought provoking.

 

[Estro Felino]

Jesus did not die on the Cross. This is a fact which did happen in real life and Quran does not claim that it is first to claim it.

Does it?

Your thoughts please; anybody believing in a religion or no religion.

Regards

well...in the ancient age, thousands of people died on the cross.
The Greeks crucified the Carthaginian prisoners even in IV century BC
so...why not Jesus?

 

[Shiranui117]

Some of our friends in another thread want to discuss with reference to Quranic Chapter 3:49 and Quranic Chapter 19:22-26.

We will discuss it from chapter Number.3. Aal-e-`Imran, the first quoted by our friend.

Regards

And what evidence do we have that Jesus never died, other than "the Qur'an said so"?

 

[paarsurrey]

well...in the ancient age, thousands of people died on the cross.
The Greeks crucified the Carthaginian prisoners even in IV century BC
so...why not Jesus?

Sure; thousands of people died on the Cross but there were some who were put on the Cross but survived. Jesus did not die on the Cross he was delivered from the Cross in near-dead position.

Jesus had prophesied it.

Regards

 

[Estro Felino]

Sure; thousands of people died on the Cross but there were some who were put on the Cross but survived. Jesus did not die on the Cross he was delivered from the Cross in near-dead position.
Jesus had prophesied it.
Regards

all right. this is also possible. One question: delivered by whom?

 

[paarsurrey]

all right. this is also possible. One question: delivered by whom?

Delivered by the Roman Officials.
Pilate did not find any fault with Jesus; it is very much in the Bible.

Regards

 

[rusra02]

Jesus did not die on the Cross. This is a fact which did happen in real life and Quran does not claim that it is first to claim it.

Does it?

Your thoughts please; anybody believing in a religion or no religion.

Regards

Jesus was put to death by being nailed to a stake, or upright wooden pole. Acts 5:30 reports; "The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake." So Jesus died on a stake, not a cross. I believe it is on the basis of Jesus ransom sacrifice we have the hope of everlasting life. (John 3:16)

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus was put to death by being nailed to a stake, or upright wooden pole. Acts 5:30 reports; "The God of our forefathers raised up Jesus, whom you killed, hanging him on a stake." So Jesus died on a stake, not a cross. I believe it is on the basis of Jesus ransom sacrifice we have the hope of everlasting life. (John 3:16)

Sorry, I don't agree with you.

Act is written by Paul; he usurped religion of Jesus and doctored anonymous writings in absence of Jesus while he was had gone to India. Paul invented new creeds unknown to Jesus.

Act is not a reliable source.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

And what evidence do we have that Jesus never died, other than "the Qur'an said so"?

Thanks for your input.

Paul and Church doctored/redacted anonymous writings known as Gospels for the purpose of making Jesus a god or son of god.
Notwithstanding the above; there are enough clues right in the Gospels, reading between the lines, to make it obvious that Jesus did not die on the Cross.


Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

You ask for thoughts, but "Religion X makes claims that conflict with claims made by Religion Y. I am an devout adherent to Religion Y, therefore the claims made by Religion X must be false." really isn't very thought provoking.

That is because there is no compulsion in religion; everybody is entitled to think whatever one wants to and to believe whatever one wants to believe.

That does not mean that truth cannot be found.

Thanks for your input.

Regards

 

[Mycroft]

From an Atheist point of view the OP has one thing right: jesus did not die on the cross.

 

[paarsurrey]

From an Atheist point of view the OP has one thing right: jesus did not die on the cross.

I much appreciate your comments.

Thanks and regards

 

[sojourner]

Delivered by the Roman Officials.
Pilate did not find any fault with Jesus; it is very much in the Bible.

Regards

It's also very much in the bible that Jesus did die, that he was checked to be sure he was dead, and that he was buried.

 

[Mycroft]

I much appreciate your comments.

Thanks and regards

I think you missed the point. From the atheist point of view jesus did not die on the cross because he never existed in the first place.

 

[sojourner]

Act is written by Paul;

False. Acts was written by the author of Luke. Luke-Acts was originally one document. Acts is reliable.