Jesus did not die on the Cross

[Nada]

I believe I am correct according to the scriptures. You are talking about an antecedent event that is not related to what I said other than the fact that the body was dead which is true but the spirit of God always exists and is everywhere.

I believe Jesus did not go to Heaven but went to the heavens. There is a big difference. Acts 1:9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

I believe this is fantsy and totally non-biblical.

It is not inconceivable that God could do that but there is no Biblical evidence that He did. This as an extrabiblical theory must have a reliable source. Do you have one?

God's holy spirit is everywhere but God resides in the highest heavens.Meaning in a lofty place above all.There are several meanings of heavens.There is the sky.Outer space.Beyond space.Where God resides,the highest heavens.There is heavens that refer to governments.There is the new heaven that refers to Gods new ruling establishment.His Kingdom.It has many different meanings

To not believe that Jesus was taken up,that he did not ascend,is to not believe in Christianity.
Why would you think Jesus did not ascend if all of his disciples saw this?

Peter and the rest would never allow these writings to be accepted as authentic if it were not true.

Mark,Luke and John wrote about this and Paul.The whole time Jesus was telling his original disciples he was going back to his Father,"your God and my God."John 20:17 Jesus made it very clear he was going to Heaven.

John who is responsible for writing the book of Revelation, that was given to him by Jesus Christ, confirms this.

Revelation 1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,


Johns authenticity is not in question.He was a real Apostle of Christ.Not accepting the entire book of Revelation would make the entire holy scriptures null and void with no ending.All the prophecies are in there.

 

[paarsurrey]

Further to posts #4, 45, and 54,423,448,496,512.

We will look into Surah/Chapter No.3 of Quran to its end: [11]

The Holy Quran : Chapter 3: Aal-e-`Imran

[3:101] O ye who believe! if you obey any party of those who have been given the Book, they will turn you again into disbelievers after you have believed.
[3:102] How would you disbelieve, while to you are rehearsed the Signs of Allah, and His Messenger is present among you? And he who holds fast to Allah is indeed guided to the right path.
[3:103] O ye who believe! fear Allah as He should be feared; and let not death overtake you except when you are in a state of submission.
[3:104] And hold fast, all together, by the rope of Allah and be not divided; and remember the favour of Allah which He bestowed upon you when you were enemies and He united your hearts in love, so that by His grace you became as brothers; and you were on the brink of a pit of fire and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah explain to you His commandments that you may be guided.
[3:105] And let there be among you a body of men who should invite to goodness, and enjoin equity and forbid evil. And it is they who shall prosper.
[3:106] And be not like those who became divided and who disagreed among themselvesafter clear proofs had come to them. And it is they for whom there shall be a great punishment,
[3:107] On the day when some faces shall be white, and some faces shall be black. As for those whose faces will be black, it will be said to them: ‘Did you disbelieve after believing? Taste, then, the punishment because you disbelieved.’
[3:108] And as for those whose faces will be white, they will be in the mercy of Allah; therein will they abide.
[3:109] These are the Signs of Allah, We rehearse them to thee while they comprise the truth; and Allah wills not any wrong to His creatures.
[3:110] And to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth, and to Allah shall all affairs be returned for decision.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Any other poster here, believing in a religion or no-religion is welcome to prove threadbare:

1. Which verses of this chapter have been copied/plagiarized from Christian Gospels?
2. What argument/s have been given from Christian Gospels of NT-Bible or Quran, if any, to prove that “Jesus did not die on the Cross”?
Please

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey,
I am not here to win an argument. I want you to know that I only wish to share the LOVE of God.

Had the identity of the Gospel writers been hidden, I would still have registered the simple truth of Jesus' words. This is because his words speak truth to my heart. The Word of God is spirit and brings life.

You are welcome to win the argument, if you can. I don't mind.

Regards

 

[Redemptionsong]

The Truth has been made known through the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments. If you would take the time to look carefully you will discover this for yourself. What becomes ever increasingly obvious from the comparisons made between the Qur'an and the Bible is that the two are not compatible. Either the Bible has been grossly distorted (to the point of shredding) or the Qur'an is a false prophecy. A mixture of the two is plainly not consistent or possible.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Truth has been made known through the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments. If you would take the time to look carefully you will discover this for yourself. What becomes ever increasingly obvious from the comparisons made between the Qur'an and the Bible is that the two are not compatible. Either the Bible has been grossly distorted (to the point of shredding) or the Qur'an is a false prophecy. A mixture of the two is plainly not consistent or possible.

Bible has been grossly distorted

Yes that is truth.Torah is distorted and corrupted.

Regards

 

[Redemptionsong]

paarsurrey, if you believe that the Bible is grossly distorted , then it should be stated clearly which bits of the Bible are NOT compatible with the Qur'an.

The reason that this has not been seriously attempted by any Islamic scholar is that it raises a very dangerous prospect - namely, that the Qur'an will be severed from the Bible, and Muhammad with it. In isolation, Muhammad's status as a prophet of God is undermined. The very claim that he is the final prophet of God rests on there being a line of prophets reaching back to Adam.

 

[outhouse]

Yes that is truth.Torah is distorted and corrupted.

And your book plagiarized it all.

 

[outhouse]

The very claim that he is the final prophet of God rests on there being a line of prophets reaching back to Adam.

Which is mythology

The koran factually has ZERO credibility in any aspect of Israelite culture :yes:

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey, if you believe that the Bible is grossly distorted , then it should be stated clearly which bits of the Bible are NOT compatible with the Qur'an.

The reason that this has not been seriously attempted by any Islamic scholar is that it raises a very dangerous prospect - namely, that the Qur'an will be severed from the Bible, and Muhammad with it. In isolation, Muhammad's status as a prophet of God is undermined. The very claim that he is the final prophet of God rests on there being a line of prophets reaching back to Adam.

the Bible is grossly distorted

It is true that Bible is grossly distorted.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey, if you believe that the Bible is grossly distorted , then it should be stated clearly which bits of the Bible are NOT compatible with the Qur'an.

The reason that this has not been seriously attempted by any Islamic scholar is that it raises a very dangerous prospect - namely, that the Qur'an will be severed from the Bible, and Muhammad with it. In isolation, Muhammad's status as a prophet of God is undermined. The very claim that he is the final prophet of God rests on there being a line of prophets reaching back to Adam.

Every bit of Torah and NT-Bible that differs with Quran is corrupted.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Further to posts #4, 45, and 54,423,448,496,512,552,571,582.

We will look into Surah/Chapter No.3 of Quran to its end: [12]

The Holy Quran : Chapter 3: Aal-e-`Imran

[3:111] You are the best people raised for the good of mankind; you enjoin what is good and forbid evil and believe in Allah. And if the People of the Book had believed, it would have surely been better for them. Some of them are believers, but most of them are disobedient.
[3:112] They cannot harm you save a slight hurt; and if they fight you, they shall show you their backs. Then they shall not be helped.
[3:113] Smitten shall they be with abasement wherever they are found, unless they have protection from Allah, or protection from men. They have incurred the wrath of Allah, and smitten are they with wretchedness. That is because they would reject the Signs of Allah and kill the Prophets unjustly. That is because they rebelled and used to transgress.
[3:114] They are not all alike. Among the People of the Book there is a party who stand by their covenant; they recite the word of Allah in the hours of night and prostrate themselvesbefore Him.
[3:115] They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and enjoin what is good and forbid evil, and hasten, vying with one another, in good works. And these are among the righteous.
[3:116] And whatever good they do, they shall not be denied its due reward; and Allah well knows the God-fearing.
[3:117] As for those who disbelieve, their possessions and their children shall not avail them aught against Allah; and these are the inmates of the Fire; therein shall they abide.
[3:118] The likeness of what they spend for the present life is as the likeness of a wind wherein there is intense cold which smites the harvest of a people who have wronged themselves, and destroys it. And Allah has not wronged them, but they wrong themselves.
[3:119] O ye who believe! take not others than your own people as intimate friends; they will not fail to corrupt you. They love to see you in trouble. Hatred has already shown itself through the utterances of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still. We have made clear to you Our commandments, if you will understand.
[3:120] Behold, you are those who love them, but they love you not. And you believe in all the Book. When they meet you, they say, ‘We believe;’ but when they are alone, they bite their finger-tips at you for rage. Say, ‘Perish in your rage. Surely, Allah knows well what is hidden in your breasts.’
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Any other poster here, believing in a religion or no-religion is welcome to prove threadbare:

1. Which verses of this chapter have been copied/plagiarized from Christian Gospels?
2. What argument/s have been given from Christian Gospels of NT-Bible or Quran, if any, to prove that “Jesus did not die on the Cross”?

Please

Regards

 

[Redemptionsong]

paarsurrey, One-answer,
Here are some reasons why Muhammad's word should NOT be trusted.

1. Muhammad claims to be directing people back to God, when in fact he is only offering more LAW.
Jesus Christ fulfils the law in LOVE. This is the new covenant that supersedes the old.
Muhammad is therefore taking people back to the type of covenant that should have ended with John the Baptist.

2. Had Muhammad been a true prophet, he would either have been an ISRAELITE or a born again believer. Muhammad is neither. The prophets that appear after the Kingdom of God is announced [from the Gospels onwards] are all members of the body of Christ.

3. The word that Muhammad delivers through the Qur'an is fundamentally at odds with the word of the Bible. The rejection of the crucifixion, and basic errors, such as Ishmael's intended sacrifice by Abraham, are proof that Muhammad's word is not of God.

4. One should also be wary of a religion that has no knowledge of God. There is no place for an indwelling HOLY SPIRIT, and this means that there can be no personal relationship or communion. No Muslim is able to seek God with the words, 'Our Father..' Yet this is what Christians are able to do, because they are one spiritual body with the SON OF GOD.
Muslims have settled on a TRANSCENDENT God, who is not IMMANENT. He is UNKNOWN.

 

[outhouse]

Every bit of Torah and NT-Bible that differs with Quran is corrupted.

Regards

The koran factually has ZERO credibility in any aspect of Israelite culture

it is the koran corrupted and perverted the religion before it.


Its why no credible historian will open a single page

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus did not die on the Cross


11th Argument – When the centurion pierced a spear into the side of Jesus, blood and water came out.

John 19:34

Jesus' Side is Pierced
34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.

John 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

Blood and water come out from a living person not a dead person.

For the Romans it was a matter of common knowledge that crucified people did not die in a few hours.

Jesus was on the cross for only 2/3 hours, he was a strong young person, his bones were not broken, when his side was pierced blood and water came out that happens from a living person, not a dead person.

Therefore no physician certified of Jesus' death on Cross.

The creed that "Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross" is a fabrication of Paul, the Church and their associates and has got nothing to do with Jesus and his teachings.


Regards

 

[Nada]

Jesus did not die on the Cross


11th Argument – When the centurion pierced a spear into the side of Jesus, blood and water came out.

John 19:34

Jesus' Side is Pierced
34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.

John 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

Blood and water come out from a living person not a dead person.

For the Romans it was a matter of common knowledge that crucified people did not die in a few hours.

Jesus was on the cross for only 2/3 hours, he was a strong young person, his bones were not broken, when his side was pierced blood and water came out that happens from a living person, not a dead person.

Therefore no physician certified of Jesus' death on Cross.

The creed that "Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross" is a fabrication of Paul, the Church and their associates and has got nothing to do with Jesus and his teachings.


Regards

Jesus did not die on a cross.It was a stake or pole called a stauros.

Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole."

This is a quote from the OT in Deuteronomy 21:23 you must not leave the body hanging on the pole overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a pole is under God's curse. You must not desecrate the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance.

Even the KJV bible renders it tree not cross.


Galatians 3:13 King James Bible
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Jesus did die on that pole.The holy scriptures confirms this.

Matthew 27:46 About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.…

The book of Matthew was written in c. 41 C.E. Paul had no influence on this writing.

It is also confirmed in the book of Mark.


Mark 15:34 And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

37 And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed His last.

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Jesus did not die on a cross.It was a stake or pole called a stauros..

Nah mate, that's just a Jehovah's Witness idea.
They forget that a cross consisted not just of the stake, but also of the crossbeam (patibulum) which was lashed to it to form the cross shape.

 

[Redemptionsong]

paarsurrey, where do you get the idea that Jesus was on the cross for 2/3 hours?

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey, where do you get the idea that Jesus was on the cross for 2/3 hours?

Jesus in India

“Readers should not be under any misconception: the Cross of the Jews was not like the hangman's noose of to-day from which deliverance alive is nearly impossible, for the Cross of those days had no rope to be put round the neck of the victim, nor was he subjected to a fall from a wooden plank and allowed to keep hanging; rather, he was just put on the Cross, and his hands and feet were nailed to it; and it was quite possible that if, after crucifying a person and driving nails into him, it was decided -- in a day or two -- to forgive him and spare his life, he was taken down alive before his bones had been broken, the punishment already undergone being deemed sufficient for him.

If it was decided to kill him, he was kept on the Cross at least for three days; water or bread was not allowed to come near him, and he was left in this condition in the sun for three or more days, when his bones were broken and ultimately as a result of this torture he died. But the grace of Almighty God rescued Jesus from this torture which would have ended his life.

Reading the gospel with care will show that Jesus (on whom be peace) did not remain on the Cross for three days; he did not have to suffer hunger or thirst for three days; nor were his bones broken.

On the other hand, he remained on the Cross only for two hours, and the grace and mercy of God managed to bring about the crucifixion in the latter part of the day, which was a Friday, only a little time before sunset, the next day being the Sabbath, the feast Fasah of the Jews.

According to Jewish custom it was unlawful and a punishable crime to let anyone remain on the Cross on the Sabbath day, or during the night previous to it; Jews, like Muslims, observed the lunar calendar, sunset being regarded as beginning the day.

So, on the one hand, there was this circumstance which arose out of earthly causes, and, on the other, Almighty God brought into existence heavenly circumstances, namely, that when it was the sixth hour, there was a severe dust-storm which darkened the earth for three hours.6

This sixth hour was after twelve o'clock, i.e., close to the evening. Now, the Jews were afraid in this utter darkness, lest the night of the Sabbath should overtake them, and lest, having violated the sanctity of the Sabbath, they should deserve to be punished.

Therefore, in all haste they took Jesus and the two thieves off their Crosses.”

Jesus in India

Regards

 

[Shuttlecraft]

Jesus in India

Haha there's no logical reason why Jesus would want to go to India unless it was to learn how to make vindaloos!
You'll be telling us next he went to America to go into shrimping..
If he had, the gospels would say-

"And Jesus said to the crowds- 'There's a million ways to cook shrimp..You can barbecue it, boil it, broil it, bake it, saute it, there's shrimp-kabobs, shrimp creole, shrimp gumbo. Pan fried, deep fried, stir-fried. There's pineapple shrimp, lemon shrimp, coconut shrimp, pepper shrimp, shrimp soup, shrimp stew, shrimp salad, shrimp and potatoes, shrimp burger, shrimp sandwich..."

 

[Muffled]

God's holy spirit is everywhere but God resides in the highest heavens.Meaning in a lofty place above all.There are several meanings of heavens.There is the sky.Outer space.Beyond space.Where God resides,the highest heavens.There is heavens that refer to governments.There is the new heaven that refers to Gods new ruling establishment.His Kingdom.It has many different meanings

To not believe that Jesus was taken up,that he did not ascend,is to not believe in Christianity.
Why would you think Jesus did not ascend if all of his disciples saw this?

Peter and the rest would never allow these writings to be accepted as authentic if it were not true.

Mark,Luke and John wrote about this and Paul.The whole time Jesus was telling his original disciples he was going back to his Father,"your God and my God."John 20:17 Jesus made it very clear he was going to Heaven.

John who is responsible for writing the book of Revelation, that was given to him by Jesus Christ, confirms this.

Revelation 1:1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,


Johns authenticity is not in question.He was a real Apostle of Christ.Not accepting the entire book of Revelation would make the entire holy scriptures null and void with no ending.All the prophecies are in there.

I believe this is a misinterpretation. God is a Spirit so He is everywhere. The idea of residence as in a finite entity being in one place does not exist with God so the concept is mostly metaphoric.

I believe there is no evidence to support that satement.

I believe Jesus ascended into the heavens but I don't think it has anything to do with being a Christian per se.