Jesus did not die on the Cross

[firedragon]

Facts:

1. Jesus is mentioned in the Quran more than Mohammad.
2. Jesus is the only prophet claimed by Islam that did not marry or have children.
3. Jesus was a Jew and born of a virgin - Bible and Quran
4. Jesus performs miracles in the Bible and Quran - Mohammad does not
5. Jesus ascended into heaven and will come again - Bible and Quran
6. First Gospel of the NT was written within 50 years of his death.
7. Quran was finished in 632 (600 years after his death.
8. The Gospels were written by the apostles who saw the events first hand.
9. The Quran was written by Mohammad over 23 years claiming the Angel Gabriel told him what to write.

Conclusion:

The Quran ripped the Bible off and Jesus died on the cross per the testimony of the apostles.

I reply to this because it should be. But, truthfully, there no necessity to go the Quran for this argument which should be done based on the bible alone. It is not logical to quote the Quran.

Anyway, here goes.

1. Yes. Jesus is mentioned in the Quran more than Muhammed. 500% more. Its really funny that Muhammed, the so called author would mention Jesus 25 times, Adam 25 times and Mary 32 times while he mentions his name only 4 times. A man who writes abook by himself should typically cite himself much more than anyone else. Well, thats a thinking. Nevertheless, this is irrelevant.

So you are in other words implying by this statement that Jesus is more important than Muhammed in the Quran. But Muhammed ripped off the bible to write a book and portrayed himself as person of lowe value.

2. Jesus was the only prophet who was not married nor had children. You said according to Islam. What do yo mean Islam? What book?

3. The Quranic Jew is a different Jew than your idea brother. Quran says Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Nazarene (Nasara meaning follower). But if you mean as a race, yes.

4. Again, Are you saying that Jesus is more important than Muhammed according to the Quran?

5. Where in the Quran does it say that Jesus Ascended into heaven and is coming back?

6. The first Gospel is written probably 30 years after Jesus. But there are four canonical gospels. Each have a different stories or theologies. The Quran is one theology. THere is a definite evolution to the Gospels. Which Gospel do you take as Gospel truth on Jesus's story. Do you take all four as truth? Then there are four different books,

7. Yes. The Quran was written years after Jesus.

8. But, the Gospels were not written by any firsthand witnesses. You yourself said that the first Gospel was written decades later. Not only that, they were written in another language, written well by educated writers which the followers of Jesus were probably not, they dont claim for authorship, they themselves say that they are borrowed knowledge from their ancestors. THere are too many reasons.

But your claim that Gospels were written by "who saw the events first hand" is a fleeting statement with no basis.

9.

This is not relevant to the topic because it should be argued or discussed based on the Biblical stories of Jesus, not based on the Quran. Quran cannot be used as proof that Jesus was not crucified. It can only be proof to Muslims, from a theological point of view.

This is absurd.

 

[ZooGirl02]

The Quran is actually ambiguous on the question, and some passages seem to suggest that he was killed. It was medieval exegetes who decided that 'only a likeness' was crucified, a substitute.

Other exegetes disagreed though and there were contradictory explanations in different tafsir. Seeing as this is quite a 'big issue', you'd have thought they would have remembered such an important point. Apparently not though, leaving scholars to speculate about how to interpret the ambiguous information in the Quran meaning exegesis on this issue is somewhat speculative.

The Quran does state that Jesus was not crucified though, right?

 

[firedragon]

The Quran does state that Jesus was not crucified though, right?

Thats right ZooGirl.

 

[paarsurrey]

Facts:

1. Jesus is mentioned in the Quran more than Mohammad.
2. Jesus is the only prophet claimed by Islam that did not marry or have children.
3. Jesus was a Jew and born of a virgin - Bible and Quran
4. Jesus performs miracles in the Bible and Quran - Mohammad does not
5. Jesus ascended into heaven and will come again - Bible and Quran
6. First Gospel of the NT was written within 50 years of his death.
7. Quran was finished in 632 (600 years after his death.
8. The Gospels were written by the apostles who saw the events first hand.
9. The Quran was written by Mohammad over 23 years claiming the Angel Gabriel told him what to write.
Conclusion:
The Quran ripped the Bible off and Jesus died on the cross per the testimony of the apostles.

It is magnanimity of Islam/Quran/Muhammad. There were many allegations against Jesus and his mother Mary and Quran wanted to clear Jesus from those allegations and refuted the charges against Jesus.
Muhammad was already clear from all such allegations .
We Muslims belive only that Jesus existed and was a pious man and prophet/messenger of God only on the basis of Quran.
Regards

#768

 

[paarsurrey]

Was the Pharisees sin that cause Jesus to die.
Roman like American today , romans just finished the job
Was the sins of the Pharisees he die for ,not the Christian.
Was no Christian to die for , only sins of Pharisees

Nicodemus
"Was the Pharisees sin that cause Jesus to die."
Judaism people of that time leading by the Pharisees tried their utmost that Jesus is killed on the cross, yet Jesus survived and was only near-dead. Later Jesus' treatment of the injuries inflicted on the Cross was done by Jesus' friends which included the physician Nicodemus in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea .

Joseph of Arimathea - the man who allowed treatment of Jesus in his own tomb.

Regards

#768 #784

 

[Augustus]

The Quran does state that Jesus was not crucified though, right?

The material is ambiguous to some extent. It says the Jews did not crucify him, not he wasn't crucified. The most common interpretation is that he was not crucified, but instead raised to heaven. If you read the text independently then it is not absolutely clear. I'm not saying that it is 'wrong' to interpret it that way, just that it is not the only possible interpretation.

4:157: And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain.

It is in the context of discussing the 'sins of the Jews':

Then because of [the Jews] breaking of their covenant, and their disbelieving in the revelations of Allah, and their slaying of the prophets wrongfully, and their saying: Our hearts are hardened - Nay, but Allah set a seal upon them for their disbelief, so that they believe not save a few

Note it says 'they [the Jews] slew him not nor did they crucify him'. Also the phrase 'but it appeared so unto them' has provoked disagreement and contradictory explanations by exegetes whch seems to illustrate some degree of speculation/guesswork.

Also other verses seemingly refer to Jesus' death:

19:33 “Peace upon me on the day I was born, on the day I die, and on the day I will be sent forth alive”

5:17 Say: "And who could have prevailed with God in any way had it been His will to destroy the Christ, son of Mary, and his mother, and everyone who is on earth-all of them? For, God's is the dominion over the heavens and the earth and all that is between them; He creates what He wills: and God has the power to will anything!"

5:117 That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I [Jesus] was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things.

3:55 God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth,


So while it is certainly true that by far the most common interpretation is that Jesus was not crucified, it still requires interpretation of ambiguous information rather than simply being something that is clearly and unequivocally stated.

 

[paarsurrey]

The Quran is actually ambiguous on the question, and some passages seem to suggest that he was killed. It was medieval exegetes who decided that 'only a likeness' was crucified, a substitute.

Other exegetes disagreed though and there were contradictory explanations in different tafsir. Seeing as this is quite a 'big issue', you'd have thought they would have remembered such an important point. Apparently not though, leaving scholars to speculate about how to interpret the ambiguous information in the Quran meaning exegesis on this issue is somewhat speculative.

The Quran does state that Jesus was not crucified though, right?

I agree with friend ZooGirl02 (that the Quran certifies) that Jesus was not crucified in the sense that purpose of crucifixion was to kill Jesus, though Jesus was put on the Cross yet he was delivered alive and did not die because of Crucifixion, and the Jews failed in their attempt to kill Jesus by way of Crucifixion in terms of Torah.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus did not die on the Cross

There is absolutely no ambiguity in Quran about Jesus death on the Cross.
Those who say that Quran copied from other scriptures (Jewish, Christian or Zoroastrian), they are welcome to prove from their scriptures that they mentioned "Jesus did not die on the Cross". There is no other scripture, or any Atheism documents of Muhammad's time which would have stated this fact. Quran mentions it and provides about 30 Quranic verses to that effect.

Regards

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Jesus did not die on the Cross

There is absolutely no ambiguity in Quran about Jesus death on the Cross.

Awfully hypocritical of you to view the Hadith as an unreliable source of what Muhammed did because they weren't written during the events in question, for you to then take the Quran as an authoritative source on what happened to Jesus when it wasn't written at the time of his crucifixion either.

those who say that Quran copied from other scriptures (Jewish, Christian or Zoroastrian), they are welcome to prove from their scriptures that they mentioned "Jesus did not die on the Cross". There is no other scripture, or any Atheism documents of Muhammad's time which would have stated this fact. Quran mentions it and provides about 30 Quranic verses to that effect.

Regards

Unreasonable specificity. You've already been given examples of stories stolen from the Torah and the New Testament. We don't need to prove our claims using solely criteria that you determine because you're inherently disposed to set ridiculous standards of proof for those who argue against your positions, while having ridiculously lax standards for what evidences your own position.

 

[paarsurrey]

Serenity Now said: ↑
Facts:

1. Jesus is mentioned in the Quran more than Mohammad.
2. Jesus is the only prophet claimed by Islam that did not marry or have children.
3. Jesus was a Jew and born of a virgin - Bible and Quran
4. Jesus performs miracles in the Bible and Quran - Mohammad does not
5. Jesus ascended into heaven and will come again - Bible and Quran
6. First Gospel of the NT was written within 50 years of his death.
7. Quran was finished in 632 (600 years after his death.
8. The Gospels were written by the apostles who saw the events first hand.
9. The Quran was written by Mohammad over 23 years claiming the Angel Gabriel told him what to write.
Conclusion:
The Quran ripped the Bible off and Jesus died on the cross per the testimony of the apostles.

I reply to this because it should be. But, truthfully, there no necessity to go the Quran for this argument which should be done based on the bible alone. It is not logical to quote the Quran.
Anyway, here goes.
1. Yes. Jesus is mentioned in the Quran more than Muhammed. 500% more. Its really funny that Muhammed, the so called author would mention Jesus 25 times, Adam 25 times and Mary 32 times while he mentions his name only 4 times. A man who writes abook by himself should typically cite himself much more than anyone else. Well, thats a thinking. Nevertheless, this is irrelevant.
So you are in other words implying by this statement that Jesus is more important than Muhammed in the Quran. But Muhammed ripped off the bible to write a book and portrayed himself as person of lowe value.
2. Jesus was the only prophet who was not married nor had children. You said according to Islam. What do yo mean Islam? What book?
3. The Quranic Jew is a different Jew than your idea brother. Quran says Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Nazarene (Nasara meaning follower). But if you mean as a race, yes.
4. Again, Are you saying that Jesus is more important than Muhammed according to the Quran?
5. Where in the Quran does it say that Jesus Ascended into heaven and is coming back?
6. The first Gospel is written probably 30 years after Jesus. But there are four canonical gospels. Each have a different stories or theologies. The Quran is one theology. THere is a definite evolution to the Gospels. Which Gospel do you take as Gospel truth on Jesus's story. Do you take all four as truth? Then there are four different books,
7. Yes. The Quran was written years after Jesus.
8. But, the Gospels were not written by any firsthand witnesses. You yourself said that the first Gospel was written decades later. Not only that, they were written in another language, written well by educated writers which the followers of Jesus were probably not, they dont claim for authorship, they themselves say that they are borrowed knowledge from their ancestors. THere are too many reasons.
But your claim that Gospels were written by "who saw the events first hand" is a fleeting statement with no basis.
9.
This is not relevant to the topic because it should be argued or discussed based on the Biblical stories of Jesus, not based on the Quran. Quran cannot be used as proof that Jesus was not crucified. It can only be proof to Muslims, from a theological point of view.
This is absurd.

Serenity Now said:
5. Jesus ascended into heaven and will come again - Bible and Quran
Firedragon responded:
5. Where in the Quran does it say that Jesus Ascended into heaven and is coming back?
Friendfiredragon is right. Quran neither mentions ascension of Jesus nor his coming back physically and in literal terms.

Regards

 

[Serenity Now]

And because of their saying, "We killed Al-Masih `Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah, but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared as that to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not. But Allah raised him up unto Himself. And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise. (Al-Nisa, 157 - 158)

Regarding the return of Jesus, Muslims do believe that Jesus will return at the end of times. However, Muslims believe that he will be a follower of monothiesm and he will reject trinity and any other forms of associating other dieties with God. This is referred to in the following verses of the holy Qur'an:

 

[Augustus]

Those who say that Quran copied from other scriptures (Jewish, Christian or Zoroastrian), they are welcome to prove from their scriptures that they mentioned "Jesus did not die on the Cross". There is no other scripture, or any Atheism documents of Muhammad's time which would have stated this fact. Quran mentions it and provides about 30 Quranic verses to that effect.

Actually there are quite a few.

The Apocalypse of Peter mentions it:

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."

And the Second Treatise of the Great Seth:

Yes, they saw me; they punished me. It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. I was another upon Whom they placed the crown of thorns. But I was rejoicing in the height over all the wealth of the archons and the offspring of their error, of their empty glory. And I was laughing at their ignorance.

And I subjected all their powers. For as I came downward, no one saw me. For I was altering my shapes, changing from form to form. And therefore, when I was at their gates, I assumed their likeness. For I passed them by quietly, and I was viewing the places, and I was not afraid nor ashamed, for I was undefiled. And I was speaking with them, mingling with them through those who are mine, and trampling on those who are harsh to them with zeal, and quenching the flame. And I was doing all these things because of my desire to accomplish what I desired by the will of the Father above.

These were Gnostic texts found in the Nag Hammadi Library and were from <5th C

Also the teachings of Basilides are referred to in Irenaeus' 'Against Herisies' and mention it <3rd C

He appeared, then, on earth as a man, to the nations of these powers, and wrought miracles. Wherefore he did not himself suffer death, but Simon, a certain man of Cyrene, being compelled, bore the cross in his stead; so that this latter being transfigured by him, that he might be thought to be Jesus, was crucified, through ignorance and error, while Jesus himself received the form of Simon, and, standing by, laughed at them. For since he was an incorporeal power, and the Nous (mind) of the unborn father, he transfigured himself as he pleased, and thus ascended to him who had sent him, deriding them, inasmuch as he could not be laid hold of, and was invisible to all.

 

[paarsurrey]

And because of their saying, "We killed Al-Masih `Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah, but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared as that to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not. But Allah raised him up unto Himself. And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise. (Al-Nisa, 157 - 158)

Regarding the return of Jesus, Muslims do believe that Jesus will return at the end of times. However, Muslims believe that he will be a follower of monothiesm and he will reject trinity and any other forms of associating other dieties with God. This is referred to in the following verses of the holy Qur'an:

One forgot to mention the verses of Quran regarding the return of Jesus which one intended to mention with the word "following". Please mention them now.

Regards
#791

 

[Serenity Now]

One forgot to mention the verses of Quran regarding the return of Jesus which one intended to mention with the word "following". Please mention them now.

Regards
#791

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/364/return-of-jesus-part-2/

“And there is none of the People of the Book but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Judgment, he will be a witness against them.” (Quran 4:159)

God, here, is talking about the ‘People of the Book’ believing in Jesus before the latter dies well after he was lifted up into the heavens. The implication is that he is not yet dead. In fact, he is securely kept by God until he completes his appointed term. As God says in the Quran:

“It is God Who takes away the souls at the time of their death, and (the souls) of those that die not during their sleep. He keeps those for which He has ordained death and sends the rest for a term appointed.” (Quran 39:42)

And:

“It is God Who takes away the souls at night, and has knowledge of all that you have done by day, and raises you up again that a term appointed be fulfilled; then will you be returned unto Him. Then He will inform you of all that you used to do.” (Quran 60:60)

‘The term appointed’ denotes the numbered days of our lives, already known and confirmed by God. The word “to take away” is a promise made by God to Jesus which God will do when His messenger is threatened by disbelief. The Quran informs us that He told Jesus:

“Indeed I will take you (away) and lift you up to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve…” (Quran 3:55)

Thus we have a promise of God fulfilled when he saved Jesus from crucifixion, and another that will be fulfilled when He returns Jesus to earth and he completes his life here - a promise confirmed in the revelation given to Mary at the annunciation:

“God gives you tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be Jesus Christ, son of Mary, held in honor in the world and in the hereafter, and one of those who are nearest (to God). He shall speak to the people in infancy and when middle-aged[2], and shall be of the righteous.” (Quran 3:45-46)

Since middle-aged is older than the early thirties, this prophecy concerns his speaking to the people after his return. So this second promise (that everyone will believe in him before he dies) concerns his second mission when he descends to earth again. When he arrives, he will be the same age as he left, and then he will live for another forty years.[3] The Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, said:

“There is no prophet between me and him (Jesus), and he shall descend. He… will stay in the world for forty years; then he will die and the Muslims will offer the funeral Prayer for him.” (Abu Dawood, Ahmed)

The return of Jesus will be close to the end of time. In fact, his descent will be one of the major signs the final hour is due. The Quran discloses that:

“He (the son of Mary) shall be a known sign of the Hour; so have no doubt concerning it and follow Me.” (Quran 43:61)

His appearance will be followed by only two or three other unmistakable portents. Among these are the appearance of the beast[4], the wafting of the believers from the earth[5], leaving only disbelievers behind, and the rising of the sun from the west.[6]

The ten major signs, among which is the second coming of Jesus, are summarized in one hadeeth:[7]

“The Hour will not come until you see ten signs: the smoke; the False Messiah; the Beast; the sun rising from the West; the descent of Jesus son of Mary; the Gog and Magog; and three tremors - one in the East, one in the West, and one in Arabia, at the end of which fire will burst forth from the direction of Aden and drive people to the place of their final assembly.” (Ahmed)

May God save us from disbelief and preserve us from being among those who witness the final moments.

 

[Muffled]

The romans finished the job however was the Pharisees that condemn Jesus to death .
Jesus died for the sin of the Pharisees .

I believe all the Romans could do was make sure the body was dead.

Jesus died for everyone's sin. Everyone is capable of crucifying Jesus because of the sin within. It only emphasizes the point that those who were supposed to be the most Godly men could not even keep themselves from sin.

 

[Muffled]

The Quran is actually ambiguous on the question, and some passages seem to suggest that he was killed. It was medieval exegetes who decided that 'only a likeness' was crucified, a substitute.

Other exegetes disagreed though and there were contradictory explanations in different tafsir. Seeing as this is quite a 'big issue', you'd have thought they would have remembered such an important point. Apparently not though, leaving scholars to speculate about how to interpret the ambiguous information in the Quran meaning exegesis on this issue is somewhat speculative.

I believe they would have done better if they had gone to the source ie the Bible but somehow they have been reluctant to do that.

 

[paarsurrey]

And because of their saying, "We killed Al-Masih `Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allah, but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared as that to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not. But Allah raised him up unto Himself. And Allah is Ever All-Powerful, All-Wise. (Al-Nisa, 157 - 158)
Regarding the return of Jesus, Muslims do believe that Jesus will return at the end of times. However, Muslims believe that he will be a follower of monothiesm and he will reject trinity and any other forms of associating other dieties with God. This is referred to in the following verses of the holy Qur'an:

Neither Quran mentions that Jesus died on the Cross nor Quran mentions that Jesus went or was raised to skies physically or literally, soon after the incident of Crucifixion.

1. This is the truth everybody from Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism (any of their denomination whatever their name) or Christianity/Judaism people or any body else are called upon to prove wrong.
2. It was a sign for the Judaism people as Jesus promised to show them being a true prophet of G-d.
3. It is a sign for the Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism people as the Christianity people hold the belief that Jesus died on the Cross , he was raised from the dead to be alive and then raised to the skies.
4. Muslims, almost all the denominations, believe that Jesus was neither put on the Cross nor he died on the Cross but he was raised to heaven.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad received Word of Revelation from G-d that Jesus did not die on the Cross but died a natural death.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmad presented some thirty (30) verses of Quran that prove his stand truthful.
For two thousand years it remained a secret , if anybody believed it believed it for faith not with clear reasons, it unfolded by the Word of Revelation (that Atheism/Agnosticism/Skepticism people don't believe one could have) to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
Nobody could prove him wrong.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

With reference to Post #797 above
I give two verses out of total 30 of Quran as given by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad with the gist of explanation made by him that:
Jesus did not die on the Cross but died a natural death

(1) 1st verse of Quran:
[3:56] When Allah said, ‘O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will exalt thee to Myself, and will clear thee from the charges of those who disbelieve, and will place those who follow thee above those who disbelieve, until the Day of Resurrection.
(2) 2nd verse of Quran:
[4:159] On the contrary, Allah exalted him to Himself.​

That is , Messiah son of Mary was not killed, neither did he die on the Cross nor did he suffer a cursed death as Jews and Christians think. Rather, Allah, the Most High, exalted him to Himself with honour and dignity.

One must understand here that rafa‘a means to die an honourable death as is evidenced in another verse of the Holy Quran which says, “[19:58] And We exalted him to a lofty station.” This verse relates to the Prophet Idris and there is no doubt that it means that Allah caused him to die and then elevated him to an honourable position, for if he had ascended to heaven without first experiencing death, then as man cannot escape death, we will be forced to put two interpretations to that verse: either that he will die at some time in future in heaven, or that he will descend to earth once again and then he would die. However, both these possibilites are forbidden for the Holy Quran says clearly that this earthly body of man is to return to earth after death and it becomes dust again, and from dust would man rise again.
As regards Idris’ descent to earth again from heaven, we find no clue for such a belief either in the Holy Quran or in the Hadith. This proves conclusively that here rafa‘a means to die. However, it does not indicate an ordinary death but an honourable one which is for those who had obtained nearness to Allah. Their souls enter illiyyin after death "[54:56] In the seat of truth with an Omnipotent King".
"Izala Ouham" Volume-2 ("Roohani Khazain" Volume-3 page 423-424) by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad written in 1891.​

Regards

 

[Serenity Now]

I pulled my stuff from a Muslim website and it indicated that Jesus ascended and will return per their belief. If you don't interpret the Quran the same way them take it up with them but let's not pretend you speak for all Muslims on this topic. I've researched it and what I said is widely believed in Islam.

 

[Augustus]

For two thousand years it remained a secret

No matter what actually happened to Jesus, it was not a secret for 2000 years, here are 3 primary sources that I posted before in #792 (and there are definitely more). It was a belief that was held by certain heterodox Christian sects from at least the 3rd C onwards.

The Apocalypse of Peter mentions it:

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is his fleshly part, which is the substitute being put to shame, the one who came into being in his likeness. But look at him and me."

And the Second Treatise of the Great Seth:

Yes, they saw me; they punished me. It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. I was another upon Whom they placed the crown of thorns. But I was rejoicing in the height over all the wealth of the archons and the offspring of their error, of their empty glory. And I was laughing at their ignorance.

And I subjected all their powers. For as I came downward, no one saw me. For I was altering my shapes, changing from form to form. And therefore, when I was at their gates, I assumed their likeness. For I passed them by quietly, and I was viewing the places, and I was not afraid nor ashamed, for I was undefiled. And I was speaking with them, mingling with them through those who are mine, and trampling on those who are harsh to them with zeal, and quenching the flame. And I was doing all these things because of my desire to accomplish what I desired by the will of the Father above.

These were Gnostic texts found in the Nag Hammadi Library and were from <5th C

Also the teachings of Basilides are referred to in Irenaeus' 'Against Heresies' and mention it <3rd C

He appeared, then, on earth as a man, to the nations of these powers, and wrought miracles. Wherefore he did not himself suffer death, but Simon, a certain man of Cyrene, being compelled, bore the cross in his stead; so that this latter being transfigured by him, that he might be thought to be Jesus, was crucified, through ignorance and error, while Jesus himself received the form of Simon, and, standing by, laughed at them. For since he was an incorporeal power, and the Nous (mind) of the unborn father, he transfigured himself as he pleased, and thus ascended to him who had sent him, deriding them, inasmuch as he could not be laid hold of, and was invisible to all.