Jesus drank alcohol

[dan]

When, now, the director of the feast tasted the water that had been turned into wine but did not know what its source was, although those ministering who had drawn out the water knew, the director of the feast called the bridegroom and said to him: "Every other man puts out the fine wine first, and when people are intoxicated, the inferior. You have reserved the fine wine until now......john 2;9-10 i would say from reading this it was intoxicating wine because it was fine wine , and as the director said fine wine that got them intoxicated.

That is if we accept the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures as accurate, which I, personally, do not.

 

[Aqualung]

i would say he had a drink because he was at a wedding feast nothing wrong with that having a party to celebrate a marriage

Are you sure he wasn't just drinking that because they didn't have kool-aid back then?

 

[Merlin]

That is if we accept the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures as accurate, which I, personally, do not.

What is your version?

 

[dan]

What is your version?

I generally read the King James Version in English, but I also study the scriptures in the original Greek and Hebrew. I recognize that there are errors in transcription in all the available versions, so I try not to hang my faith on interpretation.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

Perhaps you will find the following links helpful:

http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com/sermons/date/2004/htm/20040613AM.htm

http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com/sermons/date/2005/htm/20050724AM.htm

http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com/sermons/date/2005/htm/20050814AM.htm

http://www.franklinchurchofchrist.com/sermons/date/2005/htm/20050814PM.htm

I understand that you will probably not be able to read all of these. But a quick glance at each could be very helpful.

 

[Kowalski]

Well, if Jesus liked a drink, what's wrong with that ? Let the guy party.

cheers

K

 

[dan]

I looked over those links and I thought two things. First off, the articles are totally honest in recognizing that the Bible speaks of alcoholic and non-alcoholic wine, and even mentions that only one passage in the entire Bible speaks in a light that can even be liberally interpreted as looking favorably on drinking alcoholic wine, and that's Proverbs 31:4-6, where it mentions giving wine to people suffering pain in death. It seems this testifies of the complete accuracy of my original post on the use of the word in the Bible.

The other thing I noticed was that the underlying theme here was that of justifying the moderate consumption of alcohol. My thought is this: why would someone dedicate such a long amount of time to proving that it is OK to have one beer every now and then? I've never been so addicted to something that I fought tooth and nail for the right to sip at that thing.

My contention has always been thus: People drink to get drunk. Moderate drinking serves no purpose whatsoever. Some will say that they like the taste of it. No one likes the taste of alcohol unless they've been drinking it for a long time. I know; I miss the taste of it. When you grow to crave the taste of such a disgusting substance it has a name: addiction. Drinking alcohol has no conceivable purpose that can be at all considered righteous.

 

[Fatmop]

When you grow to crave the taste of such a disgusting substance it has a name: addiction.

Would you say I'm addicted to pizza?

Moderate drinking serves no purpose whatsoever.

Even drinking in moderation can relax a person. There's a purpose, right there. Drinking is also something to do with your friends - no one need have enough that they can't drive (though some friends definitely do). Not all people "drink to get drunk."

 

[Aqualung]

This is a post of mine from a while back. It should clear up much of this confusion.

People point out the fact that Jesus drank wine. There is also much wine mentioned in the Old Testament. An interesting fact is that there are about 13 Hebrew words we translate as "wine," and only about half of them denote an alcoholic beverage. They made "wine" by many different techniques back then. Certain techniques rendered it alcoholic, and certain did not. Here are a few of my transliterations of these words - chemer, red wine; chamar, Aramaic for same; yayin, yeqeb, wine; mezeg, mamcak, juice mingled with other drinks; cobe', 'enab, alcoholic wine; 'asees, new wine, or grape juice; shekar, shemer, aged or strong wine; tyrowsh, new wine or grape juice. All of these are translated "wine" in the Old Testament. Throughout the O.T. a mention of acceptable consumption of wine is almost always in reference to a non-alcoholic "wine" such as grape juice, grape juice mingled with other drinks, the froth from grape juice scraped off and mixed with other drinks (such as myrrh), and so on. The New Testament is not clear on what type of "wine" is consumed; it is translated from Aramaic to Greek and the differences are lost. Officers within the church heirarchy are not to consume wine (I Tim. 3:3).

Most of the time when someone drank wine it was to kill bacteria that was so rampant back then (I Tim. 5:23), but that's a problem we don't have very often anymore. So what would the purpose of drinking alcohol be in the Gospel sense? Some say a glass of red wine a day is good for the circulatory system. Anti-oxidants are present in red wine, so it's good for you.

As true as that may be, a handful of grapes has the exact same effect. These anti-oxidants are found in what are called tannins, which are found in the skin of the grapes. Red wine is red because it is allowed to ferment with the skins of the grapes, coloring the wine. The tannins seep in and ta-da. Some say the fermenting process increases the anti-oxidants, but the difference is negligible.

Alcohol has killed more people than all the wars in recorded history combined. It is not necessary to drink it for our health, and it has no other productive use. There is no righteous reason to drink it at all.

Dan - where did you find all this information?

 

[dan]

A lot of it is just from looking at the various words translated "wine" in the Old Testament and then looking into what they denote. I believe the idea to study it was from the Old Testament Institute manual.

The facts on anti-oxydants come from a study I did years ago. I was a wine host at a restaurant and spent about a year steadily researching everything I could about wine. This was before I joined the church.

 

[dan]

Would you say I'm addicted to pizza?

Even drinking in moderation can relax a person. There's a purpose, right there. Drinking is also something to do with your friends - no one need have enough that they can't drive (though some friends definitely do). Not all people "drink to get drunk."

You could be. Go watch the movie "Supersize Me" and they'll fill you in on addiction.

A Christian shouldn't rely on alcohol to calm nerves. It means you're ingesting a substance to change your state of mind. Whether to get seriously drunk or to take the edge off of your day is a matter of degrees and nothing more. The Lord is yay and nay, there is no grey area for Him. My friends and I don't need to change our state of mind to enjoy each other's company.

 

[lofitribe]

Wine is good for you, drink it in moderation. Balance folks, balance.

 

[dan]

Grapes are better for you. You can have as many as you want.

 

[Merlin]

You could be. Go watch the movie "Supersize Me" and they'll fill you in on addiction.

A Christian shouldn't rely on alcohol to calm nerves. It means you're ingesting a substance to change your state of mind. Whether to get seriously drunk or to take the edge off of your day is a matter of degrees and nothing more. The Lord is yay and nay, there is no grey area for Him. My friends and I don't need to change our state of mind to enjoy each other's company.

The point of this whole thread is that you should not claim to be better than Jesus. If he drank alcoholic wine, why is it wrong for you to do the same?

 

[Merlin]

My contention has always been thus: People drink to get drunk. Moderate drinking serves no purpose whatsoever. Some will say that they like the taste of it. No one likes the taste of alcohol unless they've been drinking it for a long time. I know; I miss the taste of it. When you grow to crave the taste of such a disgusting substance it has a name: addiction. Drinking alcohol has no conceivable purpose that can be at all considered righteous.

How sad! Everybody you know who drinks alcohol, only drinks it to get drunk. You must have known some sad people.

There are millions of people who enjoy a glass of wine with their dinner. Millions of people for whom it would be complete anathema to get drunk. In France it is a way of life. People have a single glass of wine with lunch and dinner all of their lives. Indeed, why would they not.

Are you telling me that Jesus and the disciples only drank alcoholic wine to get drunk? Or are they the exceptions?

 

[Kowalski]

How sad! Everybody you know who drinks alcohol, only drinks it to get drunk. You must have known some sad people.

There are millions of people who enjoy a glass of wine with their dinner. Millions of people for whom it would be complete anathema to get drunk. In France it is a way of life. People have a single glass of wine with lunch and dinner all of their lives. Indeed, why would they not.

Are you telling me that Jesus and the disciples only drank alcoholic wine to get drunk? Or are they the exceptions?

I don't what he's saying except maybe that J and guys were often drunk and were falling about the place. There are many references in Ancient Egyptian Literature of drunkeness, and indeed at the some of the Great Festivals, such as that of Hathor, drunkeness and sexual promiscuity were encouraged.

You should also bear in mind that Wine of the day, was nothing like the wine of today.

Cheers

K

 

[dan]

How sad! Everybody you know who drinks alcohol, only drinks it to get drunk. You must have known some sad people.

There are millions of people who enjoy a glass of wine with their dinner. Millions of people for whom it would be complete anathema to get drunk. In France it is a way of life. People have a single glass of wine with lunch and dinner all of their lives. Indeed, why would they not.

I also said that people who drink 'cause they like the taste have been doing it for a very long time. They are used to the taste because they spent plenty of time forcing themselves to get used to it. I lived in Bavaria, I know exactly what the social attitude towards alcohol is, and I know that parents start their children young on the beer. The kids hate it at first, invariably, but they keep drinking because it is expected of them. Every morning we would have breakfast in the front yard and I would have a big pint of room temperature beer with my bread, my cheese and my "liver-cheese". Yuck (not the beer, but the liver-cheese). As teenagers the drunkeness starts becoming a bigger part of social drinking. As an adult they move past getting drunk, but by now are so addicted that it's always a struggle to leave it behind should the decision be made to do so. I've seen all this happen a million times, and it happened to me, so please don't lecture me about why people drink. Getting drunk is always a part of one's motivation at some point.

Are you telling me that Jesus and the disciples only drank alcoholic wine to get drunk? Or are they the exceptions?

Well, my statement was not that people have been drinking to get drunk since the dawn of time, it was that people who do it now do it for those two reasons (the drunkeness usually coming before the other). I also stated that in Jesus' time they drank so the alcohol would kill dangerous bacteria. I also stated that it cannot be positively ascertained as to what kindof wine Jesus drank. I also stated that the Old Testament is clear on what kind of wine was appropriate and what kind was not. Jesus would have followed that strictly.

Please refrain from twisting my arguments around to fit into your criticisms. You think inside a very small box. Please don't try to drag me in their with you.

 

[dan]

The point of this whole thread is that you should not claim to be better than Jesus. If he drank alcoholic wine, why is it wrong for you to do the same?

I do nto claim to be better than Jesus. You do not read what I post. You state that he drank alcoholic wine like you actually have some idea whether he did or not. You have no such idea because you have done no investigation. You will do no investigation and you will respect no investigation that disproves the theory that you arbitrarily accepted without any evidence or support. It cannot be proven or even assumed that Jesus drank alcoholic wine, and my research should prove sufficient to anyone with at least one objective thought clanking around in their head.

 

[Mike182]

in my old church we had red wine for communion, in my new church we have red grape juice

quite frankly, im more concerned with my relationship with jesus than if my drink is alcoholic or not

yes it is possible that jesus drank wine, maybe he didn't, i do not know beyond a doubt, but i do not think jesus condemns me for drinking alcohol, except for when i drink too much as a form of excapism..... but ive not done that much over the last year:bounce

a few of my friends rate a "good night out" on how much they drank before they passed out, this is not my idea of a good night out any more, although im still up for a few drinks. i used to be addicted to alcohol, but now i am not - i can go periods of tiem without drinking any alcoholic drinks at all, im very proud of my achievement, but anyway, iu believe the topic at hand is "should be have wine or fruit juice for communion?"

i believe communion to be purely about you taking time out to remember that jesus lived, died, and rose again, and praising him for his sacrifice, i don't see the importance of it having to be wine

C_P

 

[may]

That is if we accept the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures as accurate, which I, personally, do not.[/QUOTE fair enough your choice