Jesus drank alcohol

[Merlin]

Dude, I wrote a whole page on how this is known. Didn't you read it?

No you wrote a whole page quoting the Scriptures.

 

[Merlin]

Ok it calls into question whether or not drunkenness is really sinful.

Being drunk is not a sin. Damaging other people or things could be considered a sin. But if somebody is stupid enough to want to get drunk, go to bed and sleep it off, then so what. It is their body.

 

[Merlin]

In conclusion, if you still desire to maintain that drinking a small amount of a narcotic drug is lawful and want to press objections to claim we all have the right and the scriptural authority to drink a can of beer, a glass of wine or a shot of whiskey in the name of Jesus Christ (Colossians 3:17) and that we can do so to God’s glory (I Corinthians 10:31), please consider carefully and prayerfully why making such a claim is so important to you. If what I have presented is Scriptural, then making that claim can cost people their souls.

You can get more information here:
I hope this settles it. If it doesn't I don't know what else to say to you, though I will be continue debating if you insist upon it.

I think you have missed the point of the thread (with great respect)

The question really related to whether God would care if we had a glass of wine? Has seen nothing better to worry about?

 

[dan]

Being drunk is not a sin. Damaging other people or things could be considered a sin. But if somebody is stupid enough to want to get drunk, go to bed and sleep it off, then so what. It is their body.

No it isn't, it's God's. It is bought with a price, and it is HIs temple. The Bible teaches that it should not be defiled by sexual sin or mechanical/chemical manipulation.

 

[Kowalski]

No it isn't, it's God's. It is bought with a price, and it is HIs temple. The Bible teaches that it should not be defiled by sexual sin or mechanical/chemical manipulation.

Does that mean God is against all medication ? Spectacles and hearing aids etc etc ?

Clarification please

K

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

good one! - But, may I ask a favour of you ? - when replying to a post, would you address your reply to the poster (so that I know to whom your comment is addressed ? - this thread is like one of those dreadful jigsaw puzzles!

Sorry. I’ll just say that my conclusion that you quoted was addressed to everyone, particularly those that maintain it is fine to drink.

Not only do the Scriptures indicate that there should be moderation in the use of wine, but that, as with every purpose under the sun, there is a time to drink and a time to refrain from drinking.

The scriptures indicate that you should never drink a drop.

Being drunk is not a sin.

Um, yes it is, according to Ephesians 5:18. We are ordered not to get drunk.

But if somebody is stupid enough to want to get drunk, go to bed and sleep it off, then so what. It is their body.

No. It is not their body. It is God’s body, it belongs to him, it is his gift, and by drinking, we are abusing it.

I think you have missed the point of the thread (with great respect)

The question really related to whether God would care if we had a glass of wine?

No, I think you choose to ignore or are missing the point of my posts. I answered your question in the above posts. Perhaps you should read them again.

 

[MdmSzdWhtGuy]

Does that mean God is against all medication ? Spectacles and hearing aids etc etc ?

Clarification please

K

There are kooks (my Grandma uses that word, I love to get the chance to use it) out there who do take the Bible literally and don't beleive in any medication or surgery. Every few years there is a TV show like E.R. or Chicago Hope where some bumpkin couple is refusing a life saving surgery or drug that would save their little kid, and instead are going to rely on the power of prayer.

Invariably some social services types have to get involved and there is a moral tug of war over whether the parent's right to practice their religion outweighs the child's right to have this lifesaving procedure/medicine.

Frankly, they shouldn't overrule the parents here. If there is a genetic anomoly that allows a person to think that way, it is best to let that gene die out. We have enough stupid and crazy people, no sense in letting that kind of thinking spread to the rest of society.

B.

 

[Merlin]

The scriptures indicate that you should never drink a drop.

Um, yes it is, according to Ephesians 5:18. We are ordered not to get drunk.

since when did a glass of wine with dinner constitute 'getting drunk'.

and the scriptures indicate no such thing, even the last supper had (alcoholic) wine.

 

[Merlin]

It would be a serious mistake, however, to jump to the conclusion that because wine in itself was not prohibited one could indulge in it to excess . Excess is wrong and harmful, regardless of what it may be, and the Scriptures condemn excess in food (gluttony) as severely as they do excess in drinking; —Deut. 21:20; Prov. 23:20, 21

Not only do the Scriptures indicate that there should be moderation in the use of wine, but that, as with every purpose under the sun, there is a time to drink and a time to refrain from drinking. When should one refrain from drinking? The Levite priests were commanded not to drink wine when serving before Jehovah in the tabernacle. (Lev. 10:9) They were not to be under the influence of wine when Jesus made more wine it does not mean that they were already drunk maybe they did not provide enough wine so needed some more .

Fair comment, and a good balanced answer

 

[dan]

and the scriptures indicate no such thing, even the last supper had (alcoholic) wine.

You assert that it was alcoholic. How do you arrive at this conclusion?

 

[dan]

Does that mean God is against all medication ? Spectacles and hearing aids etc etc ?

Clarification please

K

Sorry. The manipulation I spoke of is for the sake of reacreation and other unrighteous motivations.

 

[Kowalski]

Sorry. The manipulation I spoke of is for the sake of reacreation and other unrighteous motivations.

OK, I understand you now.

K

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

since when did a glass of wine with dinner constitute 'getting drunk'.

Since never, but drinking one glass of wine is still a sin.

and the scriptures indicate no such thing, even the last supper had (alcoholic) wine.

And from what do you derive this information?

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

And actually, the wine used in the Lord's Supper was probably not intoxicating. This quote is from one of my previous posts. Merlin, if you would read some of those, a great deal of this would be cleared up for you:

There are also some modern assumptions that cloud the Bible issue:

“Wine is wine is wine and all of it is intoxicating.”


If I asked you to go to the store and buy me some cider, what would you purchase? Because you know me, you would purchase unfermented apple cider. However, if I was a drinker and you knew I was going to a BYOB New Year’s Eve party, you would run by a package store and pick up some hard cider. Here is a word that we use today which can mean either intoxicating or non-intoxicating drink. We determine which is meant based on the context of the statement.

In our modern day, the words “wine” and “cider” are different. “Cider” refers to either intoxicating or non-intoxicating juice depending on the context, but, for us, “wine” always refers to an intoxicating drink. Was it that way in the Bible? No.

No doubt in places the term “wine” referred to intoxicating, alcoholic drink, e.g. Genesis 9:20; 19:32; Proverbs 23:29-31. On the other hand, notice some other places where “wine” could not possibly have referred to intoxicating, alcoholic drink. Isaiah 16:10 spoke of “wine” being treaded out in the presses. It is not possible for what is treaded out in the presses to be fermented and intoxicating. Likewise Jeremiah 40:10-12 referred to gathering in the wine along with the summer fruits. In other words, this was the juice in the grape when brought in from the field. It could not possibly be fermented, alcoholic, intoxicating drink. Jeremiah 48:33 spoke again of wine being in the wine presses. Again, this was the juice as it was pressed out of the grapes and therefore must not have been alcoholic or intoxicating. Understand clearly what this demonstrates. As we strive to see what God has equipped us to do in scripture, it is not enough to find a place where “wine” is consumed with approval. It must be a place where we know it is intoxicating wine and it is consumed with approval.

 

[Merlin]

And actually, the wine used in the Lord's Supper was probably not intoxicating. This quote is from one of my previous posts. Merlin, if you would read some of those, a great deal of this would be cleared up for you:

You live in a modern world of refrigorators and transport. Grape juice would ferment in a skin bag on a camel's back whether you liked it or not on the way to market. Unferemented grape juiced would need to be drunk the same day. Not possible in those days (DHL did not exist).

Why press grapes just to drink them. Easier just to transport them as they are, pressing is an expensive process and wastes the nutrician in the skins. You would only press to make wine in those days.

Also, as one of your other contributors has acknowledged, alcohol was the safest drink, even a short a time ago as 200 years. Even children would be given beer rather than poluted water.

Facts are against you, sorry.

 

[Merlin]

Since never, but drinking one glass of wine is still a sin.


And from what do you derive this information?

Because non alcoholic wine was barely possible in those days. Fermentaion is a natural spontaneous process from natural yeasts on the skins. It starts immediately.

To make modern grape juice you need to press and bottle the same day in sterile conditions.

 

[Merlin]

Since never, but drinking one glass of wine is still a sin.

Who says so?

You have a strange view of sin.

Does anyone agree that a married couple enjoying one glass of wine a day with their evening meal is a sin?

 

[Aqualung]

Who says so?

You have a strange view of sin.

Does anyone agree that a married couple enjoying one glass of wine a day with their evening meal is a sin?

Yes, but then again, I beleive Joseph Smith was a true prophet.

 

[Merlin]

Yes, but then again, I beleive Joseph Smith was a true prophet.

It would never occurred to me to challenge your belief.

 

[Aqualung]

You live in a modern world of refrigorators and transport. Grape juice would ferment in a skin bag on a camel's back whether you liked it or not on the way to market. Unferemented grape juiced would need to be drunk the same day. Not possible in those days (DHL did not exist).

You are arguing against yourself. If it were impossible to drink a non-alcoholic beverage in those days, of course god would rather you drank that than nothing at all and die from dehydration. But now that you can drink something else, it is a sin to drink alcohol.

Also, as one of your other contributors has acknowledged, alcohol was the safest drink, even a short a time ago as 200 years. Even children would be given beer rather than poluted water.

Facts are against you, sorry.

I acknowledged that. Facts are against her if you say her position is that it was a sin for all those old people to drink alcohol. But the exact same facts turn against you if you say it is okay for me to drink it.