Jesus' Failed Second Coming Prophecy and What this Means for Christianity

[Wandering Monk]

Waiting for Godot, so to speak.

Thats is the nice thing about prophecies that do not set a clear cut date. They never expire.
so that hope can continue springing eternally.

ciao

- viole

And fundies will continue to VOTE as if anyone who goes against their agenda is antichrist.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

No .. because C.S. Lewis is an intellectual, and well read. He simply wouldn't make such an obvious fallacy.

Lewis is famous for one fallacy paraphrased as Jesus was either a liar, a lunatic, or Lord. I can think of another possibility, and I'll bet that you can, too.

The second coming refers to a new world after Armageddon.

What the story of the death and rebirth most closely symbolize for me was the death and rebirth (renaissance in French) of humanism - its second coming. I'm sure that that's just coincidence, but it's something that actually happened in history.

Today 5 eyewitness of the same event can’t even agree on what they saw or what someone said.

That sounds like a good reason for dismissing so-called biblical eye witness accounts.

If people followed his teachings, things would be better on earth.

I can't find a single teaching of Jesus' of value except the Golden Rule, which was not original to Jesus. Which parts are you thinking of? Loving enemies? Terrible advice. Turning the other cheek? That's probably the worst option for one having just been smitten in the cheek after striking back with more than a slap unless its done in self-defense.

Jesus says marriage to a divorcee is adultery; and a man who ogles a woman has already committed adultery; and that you must cut off your hand or pluck out your eye if it offends. Is that how we want people to live?

Jesus also says don't save money or plan ahead. "Take therefore no thought for tomorrow: for tomorrow shall take thought of the things for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Is that good advice?

Jesus would divide families: Matthew 10:35-37 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes [shall][be] they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Also, in Luke 14:26, Jesus says no man can be his disciple unless he hates his parents, siblings, wife, children, and himself as well: "If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." Is that good advice?

Jesus is quoted as saying it is more important to anoint him with precious ointment than to give to the poor, who will always be here. Is this somebody we should be taking moral advice from?

1. Bible
2. Bashing
3. Becomes
4. Boring

Literary criticism is not bashing. You probably consider my words immediately above these Bible bashing, too. I consider it moral philosophy, but I can understand why people who respect scripture don't like it. Still, we're at the stage of evolution of religion in the West where there are large numbers of unbelievers who intend to answer the claims the religions have made for themselves that have been promulgated largely unimpeded in the past, like the description of Jesus as moral exemplar. Even unbelievers buy into that one. I once did as well even as an atheist. It's a truism that's seldom questioned or analyzed.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Literary criticism is not bashing.

It would be pathetically sad if the OP (and subsequent harping) is what you mean by literary criticism.

 

[Link]

The central doctrine of Christianity states that Jesus will return in his Father's glory with his angels to judge the living and the dead, gathering up his elect to take them to spend an eternity in heaven with him, while casting the unbelievers into eternal hellfire. However, what many Christians do not realize is that when reading the Bible, we find that Jesus himself actually gave a very specific timeframe of when this apocalyptic event was supposed to occur. And, as it turns out, this timeframe has long expired. Jesus predicted that he would return, and that the apocalypse and final judgment, would occur within the lifetimes of his disciples, certainly no later than 100 AD.

One example Scripture where Jesus mentions this is found in Mark 13:9-30, where (referring to the final judgment), Jesus states:

“You must be on your guard. You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues. On account of me you will stand before governors and kings as witnesses to them. And the gospel must first be preached to all nations. Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit. “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

“When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop go down or enter the house to take anything out. Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! Pray that this will not take place in winter, because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again.
“If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom he has chosen, he has shortened them. At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

“But in those days, following that distress,

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

“At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

A common explanation that apologists and pastors give to explain away this passage is that "this generation" referred to in verse 30 is not actually referring to the generation alive at Jesus' time, but instead is referring to a future generation, or perhaps defining "generation" to mean something different than its usual sense. But when we examine other passages in the Bible where Jesus makes this same prophecy, we see that clearly, this is not the case. Jesus is in fact referring to the literal generation alive at the time he was. Let's take a look at another instance where Jesus makes this same prediction of his return, but even more explicitly states that it will be within his disciples' lifetimes: Matthew 10:17-23. Notice that the language used in Matthew 10:17-22 EXACTLY mirrors the language used in Mark 13:9-13, which is very clearly a chapter about end times, so there is no ambiguity about what Jesus is referring to here. He is very clearly returning to his Second Coming and the subsequent end of the world. Mark 10:17-23 states:

e on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

“Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Here we can see very clearly that "this generation" referred to in Mark 13 is in fact the generation alive at Jesus' time, and that Jesus explicitly and unambiguously predicted that he would return within the first century A.D.

This failed prophecy is also found in Matthew 16:27-28, in which Jesus states:

For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
“Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

So, clearly, the second coming of Christ and subsequent Apocalypse that was supposed to occur in the first century never happened, and Jesus was wrong. Yet, more than 2000 years later, billions of Christians around the world still earnestly believe that it will occur in the future, and are not aware that this prophecy already failed. The truth is, there is no reason to expect that this second coming will ever happen, and is anything more than a fairy tale. If Jesus was wrong about something as key and central to Christianity as this, there is no reason to trust that Jesus was right about anything else he said, and no reason to believe that the Christian god exists outside the imaginations of those who believe in him.

In my view, he was discussing return of Elijah (a). There is always an Imam on earth, and so this is important, because Jesus (a) goes to heaven, so someone must replace the position of the spirit of God's command on earth. The position of holy spirit is never vacant and always occupied by a human on earth and it's the reason Elijah (a) appeared with Moses (a) to disciples.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Wasn’t his second coming a few days after he died? We’re all waiting for a concert ticket that expired millennia ago?

 

[muhammad_isa]

..Jesus also says don't save money or plan ahead. "Take therefore no thought for tomorrow: for tomorrow shall take thought of the things for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Is that good advice?

Really?? On Christmas day too..
Is your name Scrooge, or something?

 

[Sand Dancer]

I can't find a single teaching of Jesus' of value except the Golden Rule, which was not original to Jesus. Which parts are you thinking of? Loving enemies? Terrible advice. Turning the other cheek? That's probably the worst option for one having just been smitten in the cheek after striking back with more than a slap unless its done in self-defense.

Jesus says marriage to a divorcee is adultery; and a man who ogles a woman has already committed adultery; and that you must cut off your hand or pluck out your eye if it offends. Is that how we want people to live?

Jesus also says don't save money or plan ahead. "Take therefore no thought for tomorrow: for tomorrow shall take thought of the things for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." Is that good advice?

Jesus would divide families: Matthew 10:35-37 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes [shall][be] they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Also, in Luke 14:26, Jesus says no man can be his disciple unless he hates his parents, siblings, wife, children, and himself as well: "If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." Is that good advice?

Jesus is quoted as saying it is more important to anoint him with precious ointment than to give to the poor, who will always be here. Is this somebody we should be taking moral advice from?

I like the Sermon on the Mount, as well as his teaching to care about the "least of these." He had a disdain for the rich, power and narrow minded legalists. Yes, there is a lot of bad advice as well, but I try to filter out the bad and take the good.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I like the Sermon on the Mount, as well as his teaching to care about the "least of these." He had a disdain for the rich, power and narrow minded legalists. Yes, there is a lot of bad advice as well, but I try to filter out the bad and take the good.

OK, fair enough.

I consider the Sermon on the Mount slave ethics. It's not saying be courageous, loyal, industrious, etc.. Here's the message in a nutshell: Stand down and accept your miserable lot without objecting or rising up, because that's what God commands. Christianity is a religion of submission and obedience - the only path to salvation over perdition. Subjects must submit to kings, slaves to slaveholders, and women to men. Be longsuffering. Be meek. If the man slaps you, offer him your other cheek. Do you have enemies? Love them. Pray for them, even. Your reward will come after you die.

I don't consider that good advice, and I wouldn't teach my children that. Jesus simply isn't the moral exemplar others claim by my standards.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's the point. 2000 years later, there are billions of Christians around the world who still earnestly believe that it will occur.

The reason for that is the historicity of the Resurrection is unimpeachable. If those Old Time Jews could have produced a body, there would be no Christianity.

I read through your note, but I didn't find anything to dissuade me from my other end time studies. Jesus wasn't wrong. The actual timing for His second visitation is found in Daniel and Revelation, within the stated prophetic time periods. This generation is now. We are in the scope of that timing now.

I'm afraid that your declaration of failure is simply premature.

Peaceful Sabbath.

That would largely depend upon how long after the crucifixion that the resurrection myth began. If it was years almost all new converts would not have known that Jesus's body was probably left up on the cross. That was usually part of the punishment. Even if he had been taken down, and the body was stolen within a month it would be totally unrecognizable. In fact it would probably be unrecognizable in a week:

What Are the Stages of Decomposition?

The definition of decomposition is a tad morbid. It’s the state or process of rotting or decay. And, although we’re all alive and well right now, at some point, death will be unavoidable. Although the stages of decomposition are a natural process, they do present some serious and harmful...

www.spauldingdecon.com

Stealing the body and reburying it would all but guarantee that if anyone found it that it would never be recognized. That is a very poor argument to make.

This ain't Weekend At Bernie's.

 

[Sand Dancer]

OK, fair enough.

I consider the Sermon on the Mount slave ethics. It's not saying be courageous, loyal, industrious, etc.. Here's the message in a nutshell: Stand down and accept your miserable lot without objecting or rising up, because that's what God commands. Christianity is a religion of submission and obedience - the only path to salvation over perdition. Subjects must submit to kings, slaves to slaveholders, and women to men. Be longsuffering. Be meek. If the man slaps you, offer him your other cheek. Do you have enemies? Love them. Pray for them, even. Your reward will come after you die.

I don't consider that good advice, and I wouldn't teach my children that. Jesus simply isn't the moral exemplar others claim by my standards.

Dang, but we want him to be.

 

[joelr]

Golly! So all the clergy and theologians must have missed this simple point, during the last two thousand years of Christianity, until you came along to enlighten us all.

Actually yes, Revelations has been misinterpreted by laymen church fundamentalists and church leaders are known for learning historical issues and quickly forgetting about them and never mentioning them to the members of congregations.
Bart Ehrman talks about this in Jesus Interrupted.


Apocalypses and Apocalypticism

33:50
Comes into Judaism from Persian religion. Messianic savior myths also come from Persia. Prior to this there also is no cosmic devil. This comes from Zoroastrianism. Physical resurrection of people and a new world at the end of times battle comes into Judaism from Zoroastrianism.



37:00 during the 2nd Temple Period God becomes more cosmic in scope, not walking around wrestling with people. Visions are attributed to angels and ancient authorities - Daniel, Enoch, Adam…

Daniel

43:53 Daniel attributed to a prophet of the Babylonian period but actually written between 167 and 164 BC. Daniels visions from Gabriel are very specific and accurate up through the year 167 BC and then fail dramatically after 164 BC. Which illustrates the date.

Daniel believes they are at the end times and are totally wrong.

Ezekiel’s prediction of the worlds end failed so the author of Daniel reinterpreted the timeframe so the end would occur in his day.


Danilel’s prediction failed so John the Revelator reinterpreted the timeframe so the world would end in his day. His failure resulted in ongoing recalculations.


Apocalyptic authors suffered from lack of perspective, falsely believing themselves to have been living at the end times.

Their readers share the same lack of perspective, falsely imagining that the text refer to the readers time (when they actually referred to the authors time)


For centuries people have been reading Revelation as future history. Often convinced the signs point to their own time. This is called temporal narcissism.


1:03:19

Joachim of Fiore used Revelation to predict the world would end 1260 AD.



1:08:03 Newton spent equal time studying the Bible to predict the future and inventing calculus. His future calculations were all wrong.


In Revelation - no mention of the Rapture, no anti-Christ, not a message of fear but hope


Revelation is misread as future history. War, famine, pestilence and death are already loosed on Earth. Revelation envisions a world where they will be eliminated.


Elaine Pagels has a good new book on Revelations, she is a respected historian who writes on Christianity's origins.

 

[Colt]

OK, fair enough.

I consider the Sermon on the Mount slave ethics. It's not saying be courageous, loyal, industrious, etc.. Here's the message in a nutshell: Stand down and accept your miserable lot without objecting or rising up, because that's what God commands. Christianity is a religion of submission and obedience - the only path to salvation over perdition. Subjects must submit to kings, slaves to slaveholders, and women to men. Be longsuffering. Be meek. If the man slaps you, offer him your other cheek. Do you have enemies? Love them. Pray for them, even. Your reward will come after you die.

I don't consider that good advice, and I wouldn't teach my children that. Jesus simply isn't the moral exemplar others claim by my standards.

Jesus taught loyalty to the Father within which leads to spiritual and religious liberty. Jesus never taught loyalty to kings over loyalty to God!

 

[Rival]

Actually, the transfiguration only occurs after Matthew 16:28, not after the other passages. It's a huge stretch to argue that Matthew 16:28 refers to the transfiguration, especially since the preceding verse describes him "coming in his father's glory with his angels to repay everyone according to their deeds" but even if we grant that, it's very clear that Matthew 10:23 and Matthew 24:34 are referring to the second coming and final judgment. I have heard the rationalization that the disciples actually did not finish going through the towns of Israel because they were martyred before then, but clearly this still contradicts Jesus' prediction since he was very clearly instructing the disciples to stay on the run since they would not experience physical death before his return. This is again confirmed in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, among many other passages. And yes I know the new testament was written decades after jesus' life and it's quite obvious they all thought he was returning in their lifetimes. That's why Paul instructed people to not get married because Jesus' return was imminent (and so it was pointless) and why the church letters in revelation that supposedly would be written at the end of the world were written to ancient churches in ancient towns that no longer exist.

Mark 9:

9 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.” 2 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, 3 and his clothes became radiant, intensely white, as no one[a] on earth could bleach them. 4 And there appeared to them Elijah with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus. 5 And Peter said to Jesus, “Rabbi,[b] it is good that we are here. Let us make three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 6 For he did not know what to say, for they were terrified. 7 And a cloud overshadowed them, and a voice came out of the cloud, “This is my beloved Son;[c] listen to him.” 8 And suddenly, looking around, they no longer saw anyone with them but Jesus only.

Matthew 16-17:

28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” 17 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. 3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. 4 And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” 5 He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son,[a] with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” 6 When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Rise, and have no fear.” 8 And when they lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only.

Luke 9:

27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.” 28 Now about eight days after these sayings he took with him Peter and John and James and went up on the mountain to pray. 29 And as he was praying, the appearance of his face was altered, and his clothing became dazzling white. 30 And behold, two men were talking with him, Moses and Elijah, 31 who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure,[b] which he was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. 32 Now Peter and those who were with him were heavy with sleep, but when they became fully awake they saw his glory and the two men who stood with him. 33 And as the men were parting from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is good that we are here. Let us make three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah”—not knowing what he said. 34 As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. 35 And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen One;[c] listen to him!” 36 And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silent and told no one in those days anything of what they had seen.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Waiting for Godot, so to speak.

Like we all are. But it's still premature, at this time, for that boy, a messenger from Godot or not, to make the declaration that Godot will not be arriving. This was also baked in the cake. "For where is the promise of His Coming?

They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” - 2 Peter: 3-4​

Thats is the nice thing about prophecies that do not set a clear cut date. They never expire.
so that hope can continue springing eternally.

That is a nice thing. Maybe it was intended to be that way. But there is an expiry date.

The point is it's still been 2000 years and select people are still looking for His Arrival. Wouldn't you think that even after 1000 years, people, even the faithful, would start getting drowsy and start forgetting about it? Look at us spending our time, almost 2000 years after the fact, debating it on an internet forum. Would that many people do likewise for Odin? Or Thor?

If the Old Time Jews could have produced a body on Resurrection Sunday, would this have taken place this year in NYC Times Square?

Another thing is the 2000 years is not up yet. Jesus was Crucified on Friday April 7, 30 AD. A bunch of people who count the Biblical genealogies are counting 6000 years, plus the thousand years of Revelation 20, to find 7, 1000 year "days". So they're saying it was 2000 years from Adam to Abraham, 2000 years from Abraham to Christ, and 2000 years from Christ to right about now. But that would be up in 2030, if they counted from the Cross. And there's also a couple three guys who have done hour long movies making a good case for the last heptad to be from 2023 to 2030. I'm saying we're heading for a hard stop in time and it has to happen before then. I think we're already late into the last heptad based on various unique modern day decrees to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem.

"Then Vladimir asks: "Do you remember the Gospels? Estragon tells Vladimir about the coloured maps of the Holy Land and that he planned to honeymoon by the Dead Sea.​

Look Viole, it's been 2000 years and people around the world are still looking at coloured maps of the Holy Land, and the Dead Sea.

Take Care.

- Dave.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Like we all are. But it's still premature, at this time, for that boy, a messenger from Godot or not, to make the declaration that Godot will not be arriving. This was also baked in the cake. "For where is the promise of His Coming?

They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” - 2 Peter: 3-4​

That is a nice thing. Maybe it was intended to be that way. But there is an expiry date.

The point is it's still been 2000 years and select people are still looking for His Arrival. Wouldn't you think that even after 1000 years, people, even the faithful, would start getting drowsy and start forgetting about it? Look at us spending our time, almost 2000 years after the fact, debating it on an internet forum. Would that many people do likewise for Odin? Or Thor?

If the Old Time Jews could have produced a body on Resurrection Sunday, would this have taken place this year in NYC Times Square?

Another thing is the 2000 years is not up yet. Jesus was Crucified on Friday April 7, 30 AD. A bunch of people who count the Biblical genealogies are counting 6000 years, plus the thousand years of Revelation 20, to find 7, 1000 year "days". So they're saying it was 2000 years from Adam to Abraham, 2000 years from Abraham to Christ, and 2000 years from Christ to right about now. But that would be up in 2030, if they counted from the Cross. And there's also a couple three guys who have done hour long movies making a good case for the last heptad to be from 2023 to 2030. I'm saying we're heading for a hard stop in time and it has to happen before then. I think we're already late into the last heptad based on various unique modern day decrees to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem.

"Then Vladimir asks: "Do you remember the Gospels? Estragon tells Vladimir about the coloured maps of the Holy Land and that he planned to honeymoon by the Dead Sea.​

Look Viole, it's been 2000 years and people around the world are still looking at coloured maps of the Holy Land, and the Dead Sea.

Take Care.

- Dave.

Here is another colored map of the UN Partition in 1947:

 

[Brian2]

Many of them probably knew this but benefited from their positions of being clergy or theologians and so decided to not reveal it or be honest about it. Others may have either not studied it enough, or not been honest enough with themselves to admit it, since they still wanted to believe that Jesus would someday return. The human mind can rationalize believing in falsehoods pretty easily. C.S. Lewis actually acknowledged that Jesus was wrong about this, but didn't realize or admit that this implies that nothing else Jesus said can be trusted to be accurate either.

If Jesus was wrong about it then He is a false prophet and all Christians should stop believing straight away.
But He was not wrong, it is your interpretations that are wrong, imo

 

[Brian2]

Actually, the transfiguration only occurs after Matthew 16:28, not after the other passages. It's a huge stretch to argue that Matthew 16:28 refers to the transfiguration, especially since the preceding verse describes him "coming in his father's glory with his angels to repay everyone according to their deeds" but even if we grant that,

Transfiguration passages are at Mark 9: 2-13, Matthew 17:1-13, Luke 9: 28-36. These are all after straight after the equivalent passages which are misinterpreted to mean to Jesus would return within the lifetime of those standing there.
Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”
Matt 16:28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Luke 9:27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God.”

All those are fulfilled prophecies if referring to the transfiguration, and mean that some standing there would see Jesus in His glory and chatting with some in His Kingdom.
So I will grant that.

it's very clear that Matthew 10:23 and Matthew 24:34 are referring to the second coming and final judgment. I have heard the rationalization that the disciples actually did not finish going through the towns of Israel because they were martyred before then, but clearly this still contradicts Jesus' prediction since he was very clearly instructing the disciples to stay on the run since they would not experience physical death before his return. This is again confirmed in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30, among many other passages.

Matt 10:23 refers to how many persecutions might happen, and does not tell us that Jesus will return in the 1st century.
Matt 24:34 is about the generation who see all these things that Jesus was speaking about. Why would I not interpret it that way?

Jesus even tells us that He does not know when He is coming back.
Mark 13:32 “But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

And yes I know the new testament was written decades after jesus' life and it's quite obvious they all thought he was returning in their lifetimes. That's why Paul instructed people to not get married because Jesus' return was imminent (and so it was pointless) and why the church letters in revelation that supposedly would be written at the end of the world were written to ancient churches in ancient towns that no longer exist.

I don't think it says not to get married because Jesus was about to return.
I don't think you can make your own interpretation of Revelation and claim it is true.

 

[Trailblazer]

If Jesus was wrong about it then He is a false prophet and all Christians should stop believing straight away.
But He was not wrong, it is your interpretations that are wrong, imo

Jesus was not a false prophet and he was not wrong.
Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament.
That means that Christians who believe that Jesus is going to return to earth are wrong.
Jesus was going to return, but not in the same body, in spirit, and not be seen as the man Jesus.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

 

[Dave Watchman]

So are you an athiest tallking about medicine and prophecy like what the

You got style man. I was thinking to answer the guy but it'd derail the thread. Let me give you your first like. Did you just join up to write that note? Lol.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus was not a false prophet and he was not wrong.
Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament.
That means that Christians who believe that Jesus is going to return to earth are wrong.
Jesus was going to return, but not in the same body, in spirit, and not be seen as the man Jesus.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

That the New Testament contradicts itself does not help you. It does that more than once. And in two of the Gospels at least he said that he would be back to kick donkey. And that was supposed to happen when some of the disciples were still alive.

“Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power” (Mark 9:1).

In Mark 13 he reemphasized that he was coming back, but no one knew when, so one had to stay alert, and this was to the disciples. Almost 2,000 years ago:

33 Be on guard! Be alert[a]! You do not know when that time will come. 34 It’s like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with their assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch.

35 “Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. 36 If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. 37 What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’”

Matthew also has him saying that he will come back while some of the disciples are alive:

"23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."

Some try to claim that the verses are of when Jesus supposedly ascended into heaven. But that was very early in Christianity, before there was any persecution of his followers. So that is out.

Jesus did say that he would be back in Matthew and Mark, and while at least some of the disciples were alive. He may not have done so in John. It is rather amazing how blind believers are to the contradictions in the Bible.

And let's not forget Luke. That seems to predict the same:

"27 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.” "

Now that one is a bit more vague, but it still implies that a fair number of them would be dead before that happened, which again rules out the ascension.