Jesus' Failed Second Coming Prophecy and What this Means for Christianity

[Trailblazer]

That the New Testament contradicts itself does not help you. It does that more than once. And in two of the Gospels at least he said that he would be back to kick donkey. And that was supposed to happen when some of the disciples were still alive.

“Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power” (Mark 9:1).

In Mark 13 he reemphasized that he was coming back, but no one knew when, so one had to stay alert, and this was to the disciples. Almost 2,000 years ago:

33 Be on guard! Be alert[a]! You do not know when that time will come. 34 It’s like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with their assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch.

35 “Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. 36 If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. 37 What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’”

Matthew also has him saying that he will come back while some of the disciples are alive:

"23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."

Some try to claim that the verses are of when Jesus supposedly ascended into heaven. But that was very early in Christianity, before there was any persecution of his followers. So that is out.

Jesus did say that he would be back in Matthew and Mark, and while at least some of the disciples were alive. He may not have done so in John. It is rather amazing how blind believers are to the contradictions in the Bible.

And let's not forget Luke. That seems to predict the same:

"27 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.” "

Now that one is a bit more vague, but it still implies that a fair number of them would be dead before that happened, which again rules out the ascension.

There are many contradictions in the New Testament but none of those verses you cited are Jesus saying or even implying that HE, Jesus, is coming back to earth. Sure, that is a commonly held Christian belief, but that is because Christians have misinterpreted so many Bible verses.
".... before they see the kingdom of God." is not a reference to the return of Jesus.

 

[Brian2]

Jesus was not a false prophet and he was not wrong.
Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament.
That means that Christians who believe that Jesus is going to return to earth are wrong.
Jesus was going to return, but not in the same body, in spirit, and not be seen as the man Jesus.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

We have been talking about passages which tell us that the Son of Man is coming back to judge the earth. This can only mean Jesus because Jesus said that all judgement has been given to the Son.
So the Baha'i interpretation could be wrong.
Any interpretation of passages that needs to deny the truth of other passages is probably wrong.

 

[McBell]

There are many contradictions in the New Testament but none of those verses you cited are Jesus saying or even implying that HE, Jesus, is coming back to earth. Sure, that is a commonly held Christian belief, but that is because Christians have misinterpreted so many Bible verses.
".... before they see the kingdom of God." is not a reference to the return of Jesus.

Yes, a clearly precise prophecy of Mohammed.
At least, according to a Muslim or three I happen to live close to.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There are many contradictions in the New Testament but none of those verses you cited are Jesus saying or even implying that HE, Jesus, is coming back to earth. Sure, that is a commonly held Christian belief, but that is because Christians have misinterpreted so many Bible verses.
".... before they see the kingdom of God." is not a reference to the return of Jesus.

Wrong. The first ones definitely do so and the last one implies it.

 

[Trailblazer]

We have been talking about passages which tell us that the Son of Man is coming back to judge the earth. This can only mean Jesus because Jesus said that all judgement has been given to the Son.

All judgment was given to the Jesus during the Dispensation of Jesus because Jesus was the Manifestation of God for His dispensation.

"In the Bahá’í interpretation, the coming of each Manifestation of God is a Day of Judgment, but the coming of the supreme Manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh is the great Day of Judgment for the world cycle in which we are living. The trumpet blast of which Christ and Muhammad and many other prophets speak is the call of the Manifestation, which is sounded for all who are in heaven and on earth—the embodied and the disembodied. The meeting with God, through His Manifestation, is, for those who desire to meet Him, the gateway to the Paradise of knowing and loving Him, and living in love with all His creatures. Those, on the other hand, who prefer their own way to God’s way, as revealed by the Manifestation, thereby consign themselves to the hell of selfishness, error and enmity." Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, p. 220

The Day of Judgment

Jesus never said HE was going to return, Jesus said we would SEE the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

So the Baha'i interpretation could be wrong.
Any interpretation of passages that needs to deny the truth of other passages is probably wrong.

Any interpretation of passages that needs to deny the truth of other passages is probably wrong.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Jesus never claimed to be a king, and He never said he was coming to rule.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

 

[Brian2]

All judgment was given to the Jesus during the Dispensation of Jesus because Jesus was the Manifestation of God for His dispensation.

"In the Bahá’í interpretation, the coming of each Manifestation of God is a Day of Judgment, but the coming of the supreme Manifestation of Bahá’u’lláh is the great Day of Judgment for the world cycle in which we are living. The trumpet blast of which Christ and Muhammad and many other prophets speak is the call of the Manifestation, which is sounded for all who are in heaven and on earth—the embodied and the disembodied. The meeting with God, through His Manifestation, is, for those who desire to meet Him, the gateway to the Paradise of knowing and loving Him, and living in love with all His creatures. Those, on the other hand, who prefer their own way to God’s way, as revealed by the Manifestation, thereby consign themselves to the hell of selfishness, error and enmity." Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, p. 220

The Day of Judgment

Jesus never said HE was going to return, Jesus said we would SEE the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

From this site: Son of man (Christianity) - Wikipedia
Sixty-nine times in the Synoptic Gospels, Jesus calls himself (the) "Son of man", a Greek expression which in its Aramaic (and Hebrew) background could be an oblique way of indicating the speaker's own self (e.g., Matt 8:20), or else simply mean "someone" or "a human being"

Who is the Son of man of whom Jesus speaks about in the third person, as in the following passages?
Luke 9:22 “The Son of Man must suffer many things,” He said. “He must be rejected by the elders, chief priests, and scribes, and He must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”
Matt 8:19And one of the scribes came to Him and said, “Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go.” 20 Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay His head.”
Mark 2:9 Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, take up your bed and walk’? 10 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—he said to the paralytic— 11 “I say to you, rise, pick up your bed, and go home.”
John 5:25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, cthose who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

etc etc

Any interpretation of passages that needs to deny the truth of other passages is probably wrong.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Jesus never claimed to be a king, and He never said he was coming to rule.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

Jesus, close to his death, was telling His disciples that He has finished the work He was given to do and was going out of the world to be with His Father and the world would see Him no longer,,,,,,,,,,,, because He was in heaven with His Father.
As you know, Jesus did say that He was coming back.
John 14:1“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
And it is true that Jesus Kingdom is not of this world. It is the Kingdom of God. It is not one established by humans of this world, it is one established by God. It is not a Kingdom that existed when Jesus was walking the earth and to which Jesus could travel and sit on His throne or sent for soldiers to come and fight for Him and expand His Kingdom. It is a Kingdom that God has established and is collecting citizens for and establishing it began after John the Baptist and when Jesus started His earthly ministry.
Luke 16:16 The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the gospel of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.
To enter Jesus Kingdom, you are not born into it from your mother's womb, you must be born of the Spirit. It is a spiritual Kingdom.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
The Kingdom of God is continually growing and is taking over the whole world.
Jesus rules this Kingdom now and also when it takes over the Kingdoms of the earth.
Rev 11:15Then the seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and loud voices called out in heaven: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Messiah, and He will reign forever and ever.”

 

[paarsurrey]

Jesus' Second Coming Prophecy​

is misunderstood by the Christian people, as they wrongly understood Jesus First Coming, please, Right?

Regards

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't.

He wasn't.

Peter said He can't come back until the time has come to restore all things.

"Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.​

And that restoration probably isn't happening until after the thousand years of Revelation 20 is finished, "Behold, I make all things new", so His next trip is likely another Visitation to take His People to His Father's House with the many rooms. Would He have told us this if it were not true?

We, like the first century disciples, and the early church fathers, are just not completely understanding the things that Jesus was saying in the Gospels, (Let The Reader Understand). We can't get the timing for the second coming from the Gospels, or the Epistles. The first century disciples could not know the details of the timing for the second coming, because the timing for this was embedded within the 18 prophetic time periods spoken of by the Prophet Daniel, and John's writings in Revelation.

And Daniel was sealed until the time of the end when knowledge would be increased.

I wish I could be of more help, but that is about the best way I can think to say it.

I would continue at this time to insist that your call of failure is unqualified, especially as it is based on your understanding of the Olivet Discourse, and is simply premature.

Except for Paul of course, where Jesus decided to come back a second time because he felt like buzzing the locals, but that was good enough for Paul who ran back and declared himself an apostle now waiting for Jesus to come back a third time, or considering the people who have met Jesus so far since to the modern era, that might actually be the fifth time or perhaps the sixth time, maybe the 12th time , maybe there's some future number associated that's magical and relevant to some prophecy somewhere for Jesus is said to come back for the 52,400th time bringing in the apocalypse and rescuing all the Believers and carry them up into the sky into heaven with him were they all lived happily ever after.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I think Jesus was talking about the destruction of Jerusalem, the spirit of truth and some future return. Warning his apostles to get out of Jerusalem without second thoughts when they saw trouble coming was prudent. The destruction of Jerusalem did in fact happen in that generation. I also think that there was a great deal of speculation and conjecture by his followers after Jesus left about the meaning of his many sayings.

Did the destruction of the world and the final judgment of unbelievers take place during the destruction of Jerusalem?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

You are right to say that Jesus's prophesy appears to have failed. But maybe Jesus was just trying to give people hope so that they could continue their mission of practicing and propagating their faith in spite of all the persecution. Perhaps Jesus could foresee that if he did not tell this 'untruth', Christianity as a religion would fail to survive. So, by making this prophesy, he was ensuring that the people of that generation would have the courage to continue with their faith. Jesus may have been deliberately misleading his followers in order to ensure the success of his ministry.

But knowing Jesus, the Second Coming itself is probably not an 'untruth', only the timing prophesied is the 'untruth'.

In fact, I expect the Second Coming to occur quite soon, maybe even in the next year or two, precipitated by Israel's horrendous actions in Gaza. I am afraid atheists are going to be very disappointed.

So Jesus was a liar and manipulator then? How much money would you bet that this liar and manipulator is returning in a year or two?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

If Jesus returned to this world, how would you know it was Jesus?

Most Christians are waiting for Jesus to return, although they do not all agree on when or how He will return, but if a man came claiming to be Jesus how would you know it was really Jesus? After all, there are no photos of what Jesus looked like when He walked the earth 2000 years ago...

www.religiousforums.com

I assume I would know if he is the all-powerful creator of the universe and would send me to hell for questioning that.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

It would be pathetically sad if the OP (and subsequent harping) is what you mean by literary criticism.

It's actually pretty funny to me that all you have responded with are sarcastic, passive-aggressive, and childish one-liners and you haven't actually addressed anything I pointed out. Probably because I actually put thought into this and deep down you know that I am right but you have no actual rebuttal or anything useful to contribute to the discussion. If you do, I would love to read it.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

<yawn>

Just remember the 4 B's ...​

1. Bible
2. Bashing
3. Becomes
4. Boring

</yawn>

Wow, what a brilliant, insightful response. Thanks for putting so much time and effort into this. I'll definitely have to rethink my views now.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I don't think it says not to get married because Jesus was about to return.
I don't think you can make your own interpretation of Revelation and claim it is true.

It's not my interpretation because there is nothing to interpret. I literally read the texts as they are written. The only people who have to make their own "interpretations" of these passages are Christian apologists and pastors, since a literal reading of the passages proves that their religion is false.

 

[RestlessSoul]

It's not my interpretation because there is nothing to interpret. I literally read the texts as they are written. The only people who have to make their own "interpretations" of these passages are Christian apologists and pastors, since a literal reading of the passages proves that their religion is false.

Then I suggest you educate yourself in basic literary analysis, because taking millennia old texts in translation at face value, is certain to mislead. There are many online resources which can help you address this issue. Here's a place you might start;

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ets2.12304

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's not my interpretation because there is nothing to interpret. I literally read the texts as they are written. The only people who have to make their own "interpretations" of these passages are Christian apologists and pastors, since a literal reading of the passages proves that their religion is false.

Kudos on your grasp of Biblical Hebrew and Koine Greek.
Perhaps you could give help me with the initial verse of Genesis. When you "literally read the texts as they are written," what do you read?

 

[viole]

The point is it's still been 2000 years and select people are still looking for His Arrival. Wouldn't you think that even after 1000 years, people, even the faithful, would start getting drowsy and start forgetting about it? Look at us spending our time, almost 2000 years after the fact, debating it on an internet forum. Would that many people do likewise for Odin? Or Thor?

If there were people still believing in Thor, probably. However, there are pagan forums, even here, I believe.

And if we project the current trends, soon Jesus will occupy the same place occupied by Odin. At least here in West Europe.

If the Old Time Jews could have produced a body on Resurrection Sunday, would this have taken place this year in NYC Times Square?

Well, we still expose huge Jule goats in Sweden at Christmas. So, it is like asking: if Odin does not exist, and no none believe in Him anymore, why are they still showing huge pagan symbols in Scandinavia? we have a very cute nativity scene too, in our living room, even thought the entire family is atheistic.

I would not confuse tradition, and to a certain extent, business, with the underlying metaphysical claim.

Look Viole, it's been 2000 years and people around the world are still looking at coloured maps of the Holy Land, and the Dead Sea.

yes, especially military people. it would have been much wiser if He had been born somewhere else.

ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

And fundies will continue to VOTE as if anyone who goes against their agenda is antichrist.

The question is why they fight the antichrist. Since that is not their job. And they are probably not supposed to. On the contrary, they should be happy that there is one, so that Jesus will come soon to get rid of him. Or her. Sometimes I wonder whether they believe in that story more than me. For sure, they do not act consistently with Scriptures, in particular Revelation.

same thing with Heaven. Ever seen a Christian praying, when diagnosed with cancer, and asking friends to pray so that….he can go to the better home a-waiting in the skies and finally meet Jesus?

Nope. To stay here, no matter how.

Odd, to say the least. That is the equivalent of preferring Afghanistan to Bora Bora. I wonder what Jesus thinks about that. Being asked to not meet Him.i would think it is rude.

ciao

- viole

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

same thing with Heaven. Ever seen a Christian praying, when diagnosed with cancer, and asking friends to pray so that….he can go to the better home a-waiting in the skies and finally meet Jesus?

Nope. To stay here, no matter how.

I would be very surprised if "Thy will be done" petitions were found to be totally absent.

As an aside, there is a Mi Shebeirach prayer, popularized by Debbie Friedman, that is often encountered at synagogue services. I've always appreciated its opening verse.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Kudos on your grasp of Biblical Hebrew and Koine Greek.
Perhaps you could give help me with the initial verse of Genesis. When you "literally read the texts as they are written," what do you read?

I don't know Hebrew and Greek so I can't comment on that. Do you believe that these verses were mistranslated and that Jesus did not actually predict these things? If so, why would an all-powerful god allow his Word to be corrupted during the translation process?