amazing grace
Active Member
I understand the story of John 10 and I understand the unbelieving religious leaders did not believe Jesus, a man, to be the Messiah.This is what I said in post #712
The continuing context is that the Jews picked up stones to stone Jesus because He said "I and the Father are one". That is not something that would happen with Jesus just claiming to be in harmony with God.
John 10:38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
The Jews did not understand what Jesus said to mean "united, in unity".
When He said that He and the Father are one they understood that to me that He was claiming to be God.
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
Jesus asked why, when all He was doing was claiming to be the Son of God.
This would not have been a problem as the Kings of Israel were sons of God and the Messiah was to be the Son of God.
But when He said that He was in the Father and the Father was in Him, that became blasphemy for them also.
John 10:36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
All the way through John's gospel it is not that Jesus was claiming to be the Son of God, but was the type of Son that He was claiming to be.
The Sonship of Jesus is not that of a created being, it is the Sonship of someone who is not only begotten but who remains in His Father and His Father remains in Him. He and His Father are one thing. United does not work in the context of what was understood by Jesus Jewish opponents.
In the end it seems to have been the type of Son He was claiming, which got Him condemned. He was claiming equality with God.
Matt 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. And the high priest said to him, “I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.” 64 Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” 65 Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need?
This would have made them think of the Lord of David in Psalm 110 and the one who is coming to execute judgement, YHWH.
Thomas claimed "My Lord and My God" and John said a few verses later that the gospel was written so that people would believe Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God and be saved.
The Son of God in John's gospel and the other gospels is someone we can call "My Lord and my God".
To be IN someone is NOT being that SAME SOMEONE. We are IN Christ but doesn't make us Christ.
Jesus never claimed to be equal to God - he did not grasp at equality with God. It was the unbelieving Jews in their misunderstanding that claimed Jesus was making himself God.
Yes, the purpose of John's gospel was so that we may believe that Jesus is the Christ (God's Messiah) the SON of God, and by believing we have life in his name.
Let me ask you something - If one believes that Jesus is God and not the human Messiah, the Son of God, who was sent by God, who came from God - is that person denying Christ? If Christ is not the Son but is God Himself is that denying the Messiah, the Christ? If Jesus has a God, how can he be God?
the Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, i.e. God's Spirit - it is who God is.This seems to be equating the Spirit of God with the Spirit of Christ. Jesus did breathe on His disciples (John 20:22) and thereby gave them the Holy Spirit.
Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
The Spirit of Christ is not "THE Holy Spirit" - it is just as it says - the Spirit of Christ, i.e. Christ's spirit.
Christ IN you the hope of glory - the hope of resurrected life - we believe in Christ and receive "the righteousness of God" (spiritually) and because of that we have eternal life and God who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to us through his Spirit - the gift of holy spirit by which dwells in us and by which we are sealed until the day of redemption.
God was in Christ - Christ is in us - so God in Christ dwells in us through the gift of Holy Spirit making us one body.John 20:22When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
There are many passages where we see the Holy Spirit is as much the Spirit of God as it is the Spirit of Christ. Here are a few.
Galatians 4:6
Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”
Philippians 1:19
for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
1 Peter 1:11
seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.
Acts 16:7
and after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them;
In the Spirit of God dwells the Father and the Son and it is through the Spirit dwelling in us that the Father and Son dwell in us.
John 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in
you.
John 14:23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word. My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
There is one Spirit, the Holy Spirit who lives in us and is called the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Truth (Jesus being the Truth) and the Spirit of Christ and the other Advocate whom Jesus was going to send.
After being a man on earth Jesus ascended to fill the universe. (Eph 4:10)
For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body and all made to drink of one Spirit - the gift of holy spirit Jesus poured out on the day of Pentecost - that's what was meant in John 7:38,39 Whoever believes in me, as the scripture has said, Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. Now this he said about the spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the spirit had not been given because Jesus was not yet glorified. and this: I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ and this: Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sin, and you will receive the gift of the holy spirit.
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The testimony that God has borne concerning his Son was NOT that God was taking on flesh. God NEVER told the prophets that HE was coming into the world in the flesh to be HIS own Messiah, HIS own Son, i.e. God the Son. Nope, all along God's Son, God's chosen one, God's servant, God's Messiah was to be a prophet like Moses, out from among his (Moses') brothers, i.e. an Israelite - that was the man, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus himself never said he was God - He NEVER taught that he was God but always said God was his Father and that he could do nothing on his own meaning he was NOT equal to God his Father. The apostles NEVER preached that Jesus was God but always distinguished God from Jesus - so who is not believing God and making him a liar? Maybe you should stop and think about what it really means to be "antichrist".There are many things to say about Jesus but I should stop when you don't even believe Jesus when He said that He was in heaven with His Father and came down from heaven to earth.
Try believing the straight forward passages instead of changing the meaning.