Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

[Muffled]

Every Christian has their own personal opinion/bias about who Jesus was is, what he accomplished and how he works today, all of it based on gospels that were written by strangers who didn't hear Jesus speak word 1 when they were writing 50-100 years later and using no sources that we know of for what they wrote. The gospels might as well have been billed a Harry Potter-style set of novels where all the dialogue is invented in the writers' minds because that exactly what happened. How do gospel writers know for certain what Jesus said down to the word when they weren't in Palestine at the time, couldn't have talked to any eyewitnesses, and had no records from which to draw Jesus' words? It's all fiction.

I believe you are wrong. John and Matthew were both with Jesus and Mark is most likely writing for Peter. Luke said he was investigating which means he interviewed those who were witnesses.

 

[Muffled]

That all depends upon what you consider to be evidence.
If a man was a Messenger of God and the return of Christ, what evidence would you expect to see?

I believe that would be the Battle of Armageddon.

 

[Muffled]

Sure, many cult leaders have claimed to be Christ or be the Comforter like Charles Manson and numerous others loonies, I see no reason to believe any of them in including your Baha'u'llah fellow.

I believe that is an a priori view. I believe you have to investigate the credibility of the claims.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe that would be the Battle of Armageddon.

Good luck waiting for that.

 

[samtonga43]

Good luck waiting for that.

One does not need luck when one has Christ.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don’t know how to answer you, Tb. I can’t believe that you really do not know what a ‘spiritual context’ is.

It could mean anything, depending upon the context.

 

[Trailblazer]

In that case, you should have begun with “Do you…” rather than ‘So…’

‘So’ is a conjunction meaning ‘therefore’. Now, what led to you conclude that I “don't believe everything that Cole said, but I believe some of it”?

Yes, maybe I should have began with Do you rather than So you, but we all make mistakes.
Intuition and things you said led me to think that you believe some of what Cole said... Am I right?.

Well, I suppose they have the right to run their forum the way they want to...

They do, and I have a right to leave their forums.

Of course. Did you not notice that I was responding to your words here..
“Once I get a bee in my bonnet I want to do what I set out to do. I wanted to learn more about Christianity and have discussions with Christians about my beliefs”. (My emphasis)

What's your point? Why the emphasis? Are you implying something?

You all believe exactly the same? Even though some adherents are liberal and some are conservative? Isn’t this a contradiction? Oh, and what do you mean by ‘unified’ in this context?

We are unified in out beliefs. For example, all Baha'is believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God, unlike Christianity whose adherents believe different things about Jesus. Some Christians believe that Jesus is God and part of a Trinity and other Christians don't believe Jesus was God. All Baha'is believe in the same afterlife whereas Christians are all over the board regarding the afterlife; some Christians believe that will live forever in heaven and some Christians believe they willl live forever on earth. Therse are just some examples.

What I mean by liberal and conservative is that some Baha'is are more liberal in how they think about some of the Bahai laws and others are more conservative, but nevertheless we all recognize the laws are for our own protection and we all try to adhere to them.

 

[Alex22]

One does not need luck when one has Christ.

What does Christ do exactly? he's dead.

 

[Alex22]

I believe that is an a priori view. I believe you have to investigate the credibility of the claims.

I need more then claims from their followers and the writings of "holy books"

 

[actsfourthirty]

Here is something most Christians don't know:

Jesus promised no less than FOUR times in the gospels that he would return to earth and his apostles would live to see it, yet he never showed up.

Paul believed fervently that Jesus would return in his lifetime:

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then WE who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord." 1 Thessolonians 4:16-17

Now Paul may have put this idea into the heads of the gospel writers when they started writing the gospels. They had Jesus make these four prophesies that he would return before the apostles died:

“For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and will then repay every man according to his deeds. Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.“ (Matthew 16: 27, 28)

For me, this is the one that cannot be excused away with rationalizations like "Jesus was referring to the future generation", or "Jesus was referring to God's time which could be thousands of years in the future". We have Jesus referring directly to the people listening to him when he made that failed prophecy "some of you standing here will not taste death until you see me return"

...they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34)

“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30)

Here in Chap 10 Jesus is giving his apostles instructions on how they should conduct themselves when he sends them out to do God's work

Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 10:23)

Naturally Jesus never showed up. Why? Because we can assume he never said he would return--this was all invention by the gospel writers probably based on Paul's belief Jesus would return and Paul would live to see it. There are five rationalizations Christians have come up with for Jesus' no-show. All are patently ridiculous but you can read them in the link below:

Jesus’ Failed Prophecy About His Return

there is another verse that refers to you personally

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

 

[Trailblazer]

But you don’t disregard them, do you? And you are right not to. As Scripture says “Let us reason together”.

I do disregard the conflicting tales and traditions of the past religions.

But I DO know what the Covenant IS. There is another false assumption. I also know why you believe it is so important.

Maybe you know what 'a Covenant' is, but you do not know what 'the Covenant of Baha'u'llah' is.
The Covenant of Baha'u'llah is hugely important because it is what protects the unity of the Faith and prevents it from splitting up into sects. It is also what keeps Baha'is unified within the religion.

The Bahá’í Faith began with the mission entrusted by God to two Divine Messengers—the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. Today, the distinctive unity of the Faith They founded stems from explicit instructions given by Bahá’u’lláh that have assured the continuity of guidance following His passing. This line of succession, referred to as the Covenant, went from Bahá’u’lláh to His Son ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, and then from ‘Abdu’l-Bahá to His grandson, Shoghi Effendi, and the Universal House of Justice, ordained by Bahá’u’lláh. A Bahá’í accepts the divine authority of the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh and of these appointed successors.
Bahá’u’lláh and His Covenant

I am simply doing some research, Tb. Why does this bother you so much? Are you threatened by a different point of view?

That is not 'research' about the Baha'i Faith when it comes from those who opposed the religion.
It does not bother me one iota because I know the truth so I know what is a lie. IF you wanted to know the truth about the religion you would go to those who are members and what is in the 'authoritative writings' of the religion and the official Baha'i websites. The internet is full of people posting websites that oppose the religion. Luckily the Baha'is are on the ball so there are more accurate websites, including the BahaiTeachings.org - Personal perspectives inspired by Baha'i teachings articles.

Would I research Christianity by asking Muslims what they believe about Christianity? They do not even believe that Jesus died on the cross. It is not logical to go to anti-Baha'i sources to find out what Baha'is believe, so 'maybe' the reason you go there is to dig up dirt. Dig all you want to, it won't make any difference to me. I have seen all the dirt before.

The best online source of information about the Baha’i Faith is on this website: www.bahai.org
If you looked at that website you would realize that the Baha'i Faith is very organized, one of the most organized religions on the world. perhaps only second to Catholicism. Are you afraid of finding out the truth about it? You can still reject it, but at least you would be rejecting what it is rather than what it isn't.

LOL! Keep going, Tb. You are answering many of my questions and confirming some of my suspicions without even realizing it.

Do you really think I care about 'your suspicions?" You don't even consult accurate sources, so of course you confirm what you want to confirm, which is your suspicions. If you really wanted to know the truth about the Baha'i Faith, you would consult Baha'i sources.

If you truly understand someone else’s words, you ought to be able to translate that understanding in your own words to those you are ‘teaching’. Anyone can C/P screeds of material; but it is not teaching.

Most of what is in my posts is my own words, my own explanations, but I don't need to explain a Wikipedia article in 'my own words.'

 

[Trailblazer]

One does not need luck when one has Christ.

Maybe not, but they need luck if they are waiting for Christ to return, given what He said.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

 

[actsfourthirty]

I do disregard the conflicting tales and traditions of the past religions.

Maybe you know what 'a Covenant' is, but you do not know what 'the Covenant of Baha'u'llah' is.
The Covenant of Baha'u'llah is hugely important because it is what protects the unity of the Faith and prevents it from splitting up into sects. It is also what keeps Baha'is unified within the religion.

The Bahá’í Faith began with the mission entrusted by God to two Divine Messengers—the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh. Today, the distinctive unity of the Faith They founded stems from explicit instructions given by Bahá’u’lláh that have assured the continuity of guidance following His passing. This line of succession, referred to as the Covenant, went from Bahá’u’lláh to His Son ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, and then from ‘Abdu’l-Bahá to His grandson, Shoghi Effendi, and the Universal House of Justice, ordained by Bahá’u’lláh. A Bahá’í accepts the divine authority of the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh and of these appointed successors.
Bahá’u’lláh and His Covenant

That is not 'research' about the Baha'i Faith when it comes from those who opposed the religion.
It does not bother me one iota because I know the truth so I know what is a lie. IF you wanted to know the truth about the religion you would go to those who are members and what is in the 'authoritative writings' of the religion and the official Baha'i websites. The internet is full of people posting websites that oppose the religion. Luckily the Baha'is are on the ball so there are more accurate websites, including the BahaiTeachings.org - Personal perspectives inspired by Baha'i teachings articles.

Would I research Christianity by asking Muslims what they believe about Christianity? They do not even believe that Jesus died on the cross. It is not logical to go to anti-Baha'i sources to find out what Baha'is believe, so 'maybe' the reason you go there is to dig up dirt. Dig all you want to, it won't make any difference to me. I have seen all the dirt before.

The best online source of information about the Baha’i Faith is on this website: www.bahai.org
If you looked at that website you would realize that the Baha'i Faith is very organized, one of the most organized religions on the world. perhaps only second to Catholicism. Are you afraid of finding out the truth about it? You can still reject it, but at least you would be rejecting what it is rather than what it isn't.

Do you really think I care about 'your suspicions?" You don't even consult accurate sources, so of course you confirm what you want to confirm, which is your suspicions. If you really wanted to know the truth about the Baha'i Faith, you would consult Baha'i sources.

Most of what is in my posts is my own words, my own explanations, but I don't need to explain a Wikipedia article in 'my own words.'

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediatorbetween God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Trailblazer]

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

That only applied to the Christian Dispensation which ended when the next Manifestation of God appeared on earth.
When Paul said there was only one mediator between God and men it was true, and it remained true during the Christian dispensation.
When Jesus said no man can comes to the Father but by Him it was true, and it remained true during the Christian dispensation.

But the Christian Dispensation is now over.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

By an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is only according to one religion at a time. Thus each religion only applies to the age (dispensation) in which it is revealed.

Once a Manifestation of God has completed His Mission on earth, what He revealed is pertinent only until the next Manifestation of God appears. Moreover, every time God manifests Himself by sending a new Messenger, His Revelation abrogates all the Revelations that came before it and the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is according to the religion that He establishes.

The divine ordering of the affairs of the world is through the latest Manifestation of God and that Manifestation is Baha'u'llah. Baha’u’llah is the Manifestation of God for the present dispensation so He is the way to the Father.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

 

[Trailblazer]

What does Christ do exactly? he's dead.

He lives on in the minds and hearts of Christians. That is all He does and all He will ever do because His mission on earth ended when He died on the cross.

 

[actsfourthirty]

That only applied to the Christian Dispensation which ended when the next Manifestation of God appeared on earth.
When Paul said there was only one mediator between God and men it was true, and it remained true during the Christian dispensation.
When Jesus said no man can comes to the Father but by Him it was true, and it remained true during the Christian dispensation.

But the Christian Dispensation is now over.

Dispensation

1. the divine ordering of the affairs of the world.
2. an appointment, arrangement, or favor, as by God.
3. a divinely appointed order or age:

e.g. the old Mosaic, or Jewish, dispensation; the new gospel, or Christian, dispensation.

Definition of dispensation | Dictionary.com

By an arrangement of God the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is only according to one religion at a time. Thus each religion only applies to the age (dispensation) in which it is revealed.

Once a Manifestation of God has completed His Mission on earth, what He revealed is pertinent only until the next Manifestation of God appears. Moreover, every time God manifests Himself by sending a new Messenger, His Revelation abrogates all the Revelations that came before it and the divine ordering of the affairs of the world is according to the religion that He establishes.

The divine ordering of the affairs of the world is through the latest Manifestation of God and that Manifestation is Baha'u'llah. Baha’u’llah is the Manifestation of God for the present dispensation so He is the way to the Father.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 171

really?

there is only one new and eternal covenant
Lk 1:32-33 his kingdom shall not end!
Matt 28:19-20 behold I am with you till the end
The holy church founded by christ on Peter matt 16:18 is eternal

 

[Alex22]

He lives on in the minds and hearts of Christians. That is all He does and all He will ever do because His mission on earth ended when He died on the cross.

What was his mission? he was a heretical Jew who let himself die, if he existed.

 

[Truthseeker]

He lives on in the minds and hearts of Christians. That is all He does and all He will ever do because His mission on earth ended when He died on the cross.

He does still exist in the other worlds of God, of course, as you know.

 

[actsfourthirty]

What his mission? he was a heretical Jew who let himself die, if he existed.

Lk 1:32-33

 

[Trailblazer]

really?

there is only one new and eternal covenant
Lk 1:32-33 his kingdom shall not end!
Matt 28:19-20 behold I am with you till the end
The holy church founded by christ on Peter matt 16:18 is eternal

Those verses are from the Bible so they only apply to the Christian dispensation...
They only applied until the end of the age. The former age ended when a new age began in 1844 A.D.

Time does not stand still so God speaks again in every new age. You an continue listening to the old Voice of God or listen to what God had to say for people living in the present age and find out what God wants of you in this age.

The eternal covenant is the Mosaic Covenant.

The overall covenant God made with His followers in Judaism, known to Jews as the Mosaic Covenant, and to Christians as the Old Covenant, put forth the stipulation of the oneness of God – “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” (Exodus 20:2) – as the primary law of the Ten Commandments. In exchange for following those principles, God promised that he would never leave His followers without guidance:

Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid … for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee. – Deuteronomy 31:6.

This eternal covenant between God and humanity, the Baha’i teachings say, remains in force today. The Creator has bestowed bounties on us all, and in return asks us to recognize His prophets and messengers and abide by their laws and spiritual principles. The Baha’i teachings joyously celebrate that covenant:
How to Understand the Baha’i Covenant

The new Covenant that Baha'u'llah made with His followers is called the Covenant of Baha'u'llah.