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JESUS, God, the Ordinal First and Last

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
yes, now, galaxies, much old than we thought is being found in what we called dark spots, or area in the known universe, but these new finding puts a crimp in these old theories as how the universe came about. bottom line science just doesn't know.

these galaxies being found by the red shift in the spectrum of longer wavelengths, vs the Blue shift, have scientist now scratching their heads.
next it will be their feet until it gets to their backsides. ....... before it finally gets to their heads.

101G
The problem is science is like a large ship that takes a long time to turn. As new discoveries appear, like galaxies forming very fast in the early universe, obsolete theory will linger for some time, due to the long slow turn of the ship of science, even after the wheel is turned for course correction by new discoveries.The Old becomes dogma, until the turn is complete.

This is less due to science and scientists but more due to the bureaucracy of science. Science does not have its own resources. It is dependent on others to get funding; government, industry and private donations. Budgets by those who give are often planned over years and decades, and the research will run its course until the money runs out. The ship stays on course even if the course is no longer correct and/or you need to turn. That is why it is easier to do science on your own, since an individual can turn on a dime, if needed. But on your own, one lacks all the extra resources the big ship can bring.

One of my theories solved the fast galaxy formation problem. I presented it in science forums, a decade ago, but it was seen as crazy and not needed. Now that this new data has appeared; synchronicity, the old way now seems weak. The slow turn is now in affect but schools will still be taught obsolete, as though these are dogma, since the ship of science cannot turn on a dime.

The BB Model currently assumes an atomization and expansion and progression of space-time and matter, that then is acted upon by gravity to form stars and galaxies. The conceptual problem with this is, going from a singularity to umpteen particles represents a huge increase in complexity; extreme increase in entropy. Since an entropy increase is endothermic; absorbs free energy, the free energy of the original BB would drop drastically. This could lead to too little energy to expand as fast as it did; inflation.

To overcome this entropy based free energy bottleneck, I developed a different scenario, where the entropy change is much lower, allowing more energy left over to do other things, like expand. In this scenario, the primordial atom of the BB does not atomize/expand with space-time, but simply splits like a mother cell into two daughter cells. This will also increase entropy, but not much, compared to the current scenario, allowing most of the free energy to be left over.

These two daughter cells also spilt, etc., etc, until the cells reach the lowest level cell size; galaxy level cells. Next, all the cells of the cluster, do a much smaller or galaxy scale version of the BB; mini BB phase. The powerful energy wave fronts from all the expanding galaxy level cells, cause the universe to expand relative to the galaxies. While the cells in the middle, will see powerful energy wave fronts, coming in from all directions, keeping these galaxies compact, for rapid galaxy and star formation.

Our universe shows superstructure; embryonic body of the universe that formed from its many cells. These cells, before the mini-BB expansion, would be similar to a cluster of galaxy scale black holes, due to their huge density. Their frames of reference would very close to that of the speed of light reference, where any size universe would appears very contracted in their reference. Small changes in their reference; spacing, would reflect huge distances in our earth reference frame. Conceptually the universe could be laid out in the dark, ready to come into existence in our reference; dark to light or black holes to white holes. This also explains why galaxies still have huge central black holes.
 
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101G

Well-Known Member
101G will put forth. this. God is "ONE" person in an ECHAD of himself in Ordinal Designations of First and Last.

the term God in Genesis 1:1 clearly support this ECHAD concept,
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

now, H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator,
Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410

this plurality of ONE Person the ECHAD of God that the whole bible speak of is clearlt see in both the OT here, and the NT.

anything else is a falsehood.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
The problem is science is like a large ship that takes a long time to turn. As new discoveries appear, like galaxies forming very fast in the early universe, obsolete theory will linger for some time, due to the long slow turn of the ship of science, even after the wheel is turned for course correction by new discoveries.The Old becomes dogma, until the turn is complete.
no, don't buy it. everyone say science is proof and askes everyone else for proof, yet their ships are not only turning slowly but at the same time sinking.
even after the wheel is turned for course correction by new discoveries.The Old becomes dogma, until the turn is complete.
no problem there, until then keep mouth closed. because as said, new discoveries occur all the time.
The BB Model currently assumes an atomization and expansion and progression of space-time and matter, that then is acted upon by gravity to form stars and galaxies. The conceptual problem with this is, going from a singularity to umpteen particles represents a huge increase in complexity; extreme increase in entropy. Since an entropy increase is endothermic; absorbs free energy, the free energy of the original BB would drop drastically. This could lead to too little energy to expand as fast as it did; inflation.
maybe, but why are many formed galaxies, have black holes at their centers?
To overcome this entropy based free energy bottleneck, I developed a different scenario, where the entropy change is much lower, allowing more energy left over to do other things, like expand. In this scenario, the primordial atom of the BB does not atomize/expand with space-time, but simply splits like a mother cell into two daughter cells. This will also increase entropy, but not much, compared to the current scenario, allowing most of the free energy to be left over.

These two daughter cells also spilt, etc., etc, until the cells reach the lowest level cell size; galaxy level cells. Next, all the cells of the cluster, do a much smaller or galaxy scale version of the BB; mini BB phase. The powerful energy wave fronts from all the expanding galaxy level cells, cause the universe to expand relative to the galaxies. While the cells in the middle, will see powerful energy wave fronts, coming in from all directions, keeping these galaxies compact, for rapid galaxy and star formation.
good theory, but 101G believes black holes hold the key to all of this. if the informational Data scenario holds up then I'll respond to your theory/ as basic as it seems Energy cannot be destroyed or created, but transformed from one form to another or transferred between objects. if this holds true to the black hole information data, which I watching now at, ( https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-...des ago. Ashley Mackenzie for Quanta Magazine ) then it will answer most of my basic question, concerning "expanision" of the universe in time abd space. for it will answer a question about a scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

"that stretcheth forth ", meaning it's ongoing even as we speak.

Our universe shows superstructure; embryonic body of the universe that formed from its many cells.
maybe, but question, is the superstructure; terminal, or repeating? that's why I'm looking closely at the black hole Data information scenario.

101G.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness
Jesus is not mentioned specifically in the verse referenced and quoted by one, please, right?

Isn't it an accusation from one on Torah, please, right??

Regards
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
I would like to mention that I have been reading a book by Stephen Hawking, and frankly, what he says about the origin of the universe does not make sense to me.
Brief History of Time? The Big Bang model is extremely well evidenced and fits a massive amount of data. Religious folks of the educated type generally just say maybe a God started the big bang or started the multi-verse that big bangs come from.

HOWEVER, people in the 1800's and farther back, did not have this understanding. They did not know. Maybe we are also wrong. There is no rule that says humans must understand everything or anything. Not understanding the big bang doesn't mean Krishna or Brahman started the universe. Same with any God from any story in any religion.



I might have been in awe of him years ago when I was a student and I am sure he is very bright (was very bright) and some of his statements reveal he thought about what other people thought about God, but when he talked about how the universe began as he suggests it, frankly, it doesn't make sense any more as far as I am concerned.
So? What does that mean? When we understand the beginning of the local universe we still have the same mystery, where did that come from?
I don't know what has you so tripped up about the big bang though?

The Genesis creation stories (there are 2) are re-writes of Mesopotamian creation stories and are complete and total fiction involving cosmic waters, a firmament and a giant barrier keeping the cosmic water off earth. The firmament is a flat earth, no planets, stars, no modern cosmology at all, just mythology. So that doesn't explain anything.

But knowing about the big bang, not knowing, that doesn't relate to religion at all. A Hindu could say the same, "I don't understand the big bang, Brahman is truly the cause". That doesn't ring true, the two are not related. Hawking is not a God expert any more than any one else is. He is a physicist/cosmologist.
The universe looks to have started with a big bang, everything in a condensed state, very hot, very dense, unimaginable. But that doesn't answer any questions about theology. There could be a multi-verse and big bangs happen all the time. We really don't know?
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
no, don't buy it. everyone say science is proof and askes everyone else for proof, yet their ships are not only turning slowly but at the same time sinking.
As you write on a computer. Which has been evolving at a massive rate, faster than any tech ever.
So if you don't buy it then turn off the science computer. Made with discoveries in physics and electronics and other sciences.
Don't get an MRI or x-ray, ever.
Get rid of your iphone if you have one, or any phone.
Cars are from science, tv, radio, microwave, medicine, surgery, cars, planes. Debit cards, laser scanners at checkout. GPS. You are protected by weapons from science, China and others could just walk right in without them.

Use none of that, just pray. Pray your messages get to others, no computer. Use none of those things is you are so anti-science.

If you continue to use your computer you admit you are incredibly wrong.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
As you write on a computer. Which has been evolving at a massive rate, faster than any tech ever.
So if you don't buy it then turn off the science computer.
you can STOP that silly nonsense. God made a computer that is still superior. to your box that you're on now. can it think? reason, or justify? what you need to do is actually turn on the the real computer God made in your schull. turn it on to "God". ...... (smile). LOL, LOL, LOL< Oh dear

101G.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
you can STOP that silly nonsense. God made a computer that is still superior. to your box that you're on now. can it think? reason, or justify? what you need to do is actually turn on the the real computer God made in your schull. turn it on to "God". ...... (smile). LOL, LOL, LOL< Oh dear

101G.
Way to dodge the point. You said science is sinking. So stop using scientific technology and supporting it.

Stop using all science related advancements if it's sinking and is so bad.
Use God only for all those things.

I did turn my computer that nature made and turn it to God. Turns out when you use it for that you see that it's just a man made myth.
The flaw in the nature computer is confirmation bias. You know Islam and Hinduism is wrong yet billions of people claim it's the truth.
But you think the one you stumbled onto is correct. Yet cannot answer any questions about facts, history, nothing. You can only continue to make claims and assertions that you have truth without evidence.
Unfortunately cults and religion cause people to NOT use there computer nature made and instead employ confirmation bias. You have never answered one single question about evidence. Just claims. Empty claims. So you are also in the same group as all the others.

So I will again use my computer nature made, since you asked, please demonstrate evidence that shows you are correct and other religions are wrong. What method do you use to determine your claims are unique and different from their claims.

My computer is waiting to hear this information so I can process it like you requested. It's on "God". Now present reasons why your version is true
and not other versions. My computer needs logic and some actual evidence that is reasonable and meets reasonable standards. Evidence that other religions cannot provide.


Ok, go.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Isaiah 49:6 "And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth."

Luke 2:25 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him." Luke 2:26 "And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ." Luke 2:27 "And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law," Luke 2:28 "Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said," Luke 2:29 "Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:" Luke 2:30 "For mine eyes have seen thy salvation," Luke 2:31 "Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;" Luke 2:32 "A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel."

this is the SERVANT of God, the Lord Jesus.

101G.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
Way to dodge the point. You said science is sinking. So stop using scientific technology and supporting it.
so you stop sucking up God good AIR, or you can stop eating God green plants and vegetables.

but God is the CREATOR of the Computer. supportive scripture, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

understand something here agent J. you me or anyone cannot get up out of bed unless God allow it. or comb your hair or even shave. are U getting this?

101G.
 

101G

Well-Known Member
now, let's get back to the topic, Jesus, God, the Ordinal First and Last.

there is only ONE Person who is God, name "JESUS", whom hold both titles, "Father/Ordinal First, who "MADE AND CREATED ALL THINGS, INCLUDING COMPUTERS AND CARS... ect.

and Jesus, the Ordinal Last, REDEEMED, and SAVED all that he created and Made, as Son. same one person. same one God.

101G.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Brief History of Time? The Big Bang model is extremely well evidenced and fits a massive amount of data. Religious folks of the educated type generally just say maybe a God started the big bang or started the multi-verse that big bangs come from.

HOWEVER, people in the 1800's and farther back, did not have this understanding. They did not know. Maybe we are also wrong. There is no rule that says humans must understand everything or anything. Not understanding the big bang doesn't mean Krishna or Brahman started the universe. Same with any God from any story in any religion.




So? What does that mean? When we understand the beginning of the local universe we still have the same mystery, where did that come from?
I don't know what has you so tripped up about the big bang though?

The Genesis creation stories (there are 2) are re-writes of Mesopotamian creation stories and are complete and total fiction involving cosmic waters, a firmament and a giant barrier keeping the cosmic water off earth. The firmament is a flat earth, no planets, stars, no modern cosmology at all, just mythology. So that doesn't explain anything.

But knowing about the big bang, not knowing, that doesn't relate to religion at all. A Hindu could say the same, "I don't understand the big bang, Brahman is truly the cause". That doesn't ring true, the two are not related. Hawking is not a God expert any more than any one else is. He is a physicist/cosmologist.
The universe looks to have started with a big bang, everything in a condensed state, very hot, very dense, unimaginable. But that doesn't answer any questions about theology. There could be a multi-verse and big bangs happen all the time. We really don't know?
The point is that to me, maybe not you, it makes sense that (1) there is a God responsible for the creation of the universe, and (2) beyond that both spiritually and technically we (meaning humans) do not know. If you think we do know, I'll just mention that I am purty sure gorillas do not have the "brain power" to ponder these things. And it doesn't matter. It's a waste of time to contemplate the maybe's of the cosmic situation. Things aren't getting better on this earth, many people are realizing that. No matter how many quantum physics thinkers there are...:)
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Brief History of Time? The Big Bang model is extremely well evidenced and fits a massive amount of data. Religious folks of the educated type generally just say maybe a God started the big bang or started the multi-verse that big bangs come from.

HOWEVER, people in the 1800's and farther back, did not have this understanding. They did not know. Maybe we are also wrong. There is no rule that says humans must understand everything or anything. Not understanding the big bang doesn't mean Krishna or Brahman started the universe. Same with any God from any story in any religion.




So? What does that mean? When we understand the beginning of the local universe we still have the same mystery, where did that come from?
I don't know what has you so tripped up about the big bang though?

The Genesis creation stories (there are 2) are re-writes of Mesopotamian creation stories and are complete and total fiction involving cosmic waters, a firmament and a giant barrier keeping the cosmic water off earth. The firmament is a flat earth, no planets, stars, no modern cosmology at all, just mythology. So that doesn't explain anything.

But knowing about the big bang, not knowing, that doesn't relate to religion at all. A Hindu could say the same, "I don't understand the big bang, Brahman is truly the cause". That doesn't ring true, the two are not related. Hawking is not a God expert any more than any one else is. He is a physicist/cosmologist.
The universe looks to have started with a big bang, everything in a condensed state, very hot, very dense, unimaginable. But that doesn't answer any questions about theology. There could be a multi-verse and big bangs happen all the time. We really don't know?
I don't think the Jews in Israel and Judah were that stupid to figure maybe it happened or maybe it didn't happen. The scrolls have been preserved and given the mark of approval by history and their own people. So have a good day. When I say preserved, I mean if you examine the history of the scribes, unless you say they're all misled, I'm thinking your reasoning just isn't right.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
now, let's get back to the topic, Jesus, God, the Ordinal First and Last.

there is only ONE Person who is God, name "JESUS", whom hold both titles, "Father/Ordinal First, who "MADE AND CREATED ALL THINGS, INCLUDING COMPUTERS AND CARS... ect.

and Jesus, the Ordinal Last, REDEEMED, and SAVED all that he created and Made, as Son. same one person. same one God.

101G.
Oh ok back to topic. I don't agree with your assertion, however.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
why, your reason please?

101G.
First of all, we have to understand what the term 'god' means and how it is used in the Bible. I hope you will look at John chapter 10 in reference to Jesus being attacked because he said he was God's son. Thank you for bringing out the question, which is important. Notice what it says and I hope you will read it later: "Jesus answered “Is it not set down in your law ‘I said, You are gods’? 35 If he called those men gods, those who had had God’s word coming to them, and the text cannot be invalidated,"
Jesus was quoting from Psalm 82:6. So really before we get into a discussion about this, first we need to know how the word god (or God) is used. Perhaps then we can go on. Thanks.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
so you stop sucking up God good AIR, or you can stop eating God green plants and vegetables.
Right but we have evidence that science is the reason for all this technology. You have consistently failed to produce a shred of evidence for any Gods? Although, without realizing it you really messed up here. If God made air and plants guess what else he gave humans. SCIENCE. And here you are talking smack about gifts your God has given you. You are using a computer, you will probably have an MRI or something similar. Science.
Pi (a wrong version) in in scripture, so Yahweh clearly wants people to use math, calculate and create and learn. Yet you continue to dump on the amazing mathematical and scientific world your God has gifted you with?

Now, please, evidence that any God created air and vegetables. Not because a book says. Another book (also from God) says Christians are telling lies and are wrong about Jesus. But anecdotal stories in books are not evidence, so I don't buy it nor should anyone.




but God is the CREATOR of the Computer. supportive scripture, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
and you go right to the book. John is a copy of Mark, which was already looking like a mythology. Hindu books say Brahman created everything, the Quran says Allah created everything. You don't believe them. Because believing stuff because it's in a book is absurd without evidence.
It's a made-up story.


understand something here agent J. you me or anyone cannot get up out of bed unless God allow it. or comb your hair or even shave. are U getting this?

101G.
Yes, again, I'm getting you just keep saying the same claim over and over. A Muslim says you can't get out of bed without Allah. A Hindu says you can't get out of bed without Lord Krishna.
So you bought into an ancient myth. Ok? We got that. Yahweh is a typical Near Eastern deity. Genesis is a re-working of Mesopotamian myth. That means it's made-up.
Your feelings are not a good judge of what is true. Clearly, you are not getting this. At all.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
The point is that to me, maybe not you, it makes sense that (1) there is a God responsible for the creation of the universe, and
Because you think something doesn't mean it makes sense? How did you rule out a multi verse? We see nature all around us, in th eentire universe using the natural forces to create phenomenon in the universe. How do you rule out these forces not being also responsible for the big bang and the multi-verse? Why would reality need a conscious being as a creator when we see unconscious forces creating all sorts of things without the need for help?
How did you rule out vast numbers of other big bangs with different laws and we simply find ourself in a universe that can support life.
Just because we are conscious why would reality be required to be directed by a conscious super-being? Consciousness is a complex phenomenon, taking billions of years on Earth to go from single celled to intelligent animals. Why would the first thing in all reality be a being who is conscious? That doesn't make any sense?

The actual answer is we don't know any of these things. You are speculating with a pre-conceived belief in a deity so you can only choose one answer. You have to hold that belief, so you are not actually weighing how much sense it makes.




(2) beyond that both spiritually and technically we (meaning humans) do not know.

Right we don't know. Spiritually is a catch phrase that means many things, but we don't know what the universe is doing here. But we do know we have no evidence for Gods in religions.
If you think we do know, I'll just mention that I am purty sure gorillas do not have the "brain power" to ponder these things.
We are Great Apes but I understand the reference. We might have the brain power. Have you read Berkely on materialism and many of the popular philosophers?



And it doesn't matter. It's a waste of time to contemplate the maybe's of the cosmic situation. Things aren't getting better on this earth, many people are realizing that. No matter how many quantum physics thinkers there are...:)

I don't understand. If it's a waste of time why are you picking a side and saying a God created the universe?

Things are better. Medical science has gotten much better. We are having the least wars ever in history. A.I. is going to help a lot as well.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
I don't think the Jews in Israel and Judah were that stupid to figure maybe it happened or maybe it didn't happen. The scrolls have been preserved and given the mark of approval by history and their own people. So have a good day. When I say preserved, I mean if you examine the history of the scribes, unless you say they're all misled, I'm thinking your reasoning just isn't right.
Reasoning about what? You are talking about scrolls and history so I'm guessing you don't know that Genesis is a re-write of Mesopotamian mythology?
It is. Reasoning? What? Are you familiar with like archaeology and textual criticism (to provide a better understanding of the creation and historical transmission of the text and its variants.)?

These are all peer-reviewed PhD textbooks/monographs, there are also some good Yale Divinity lectures by Dr Baden and Dr Hayes that go over the Mesopotamian origins and some videos by Dr Kipp and Dr Bowen giving examples of how borrowed text is identified with examples as well I can source, timestamped. While "you don't think.." something happened there is an entire field of academia going back centuries and full of detailed work, peer-reviewed for quality. They do not talk about this stuff in church.

Books you study in university historicity programs, (y'know, as an alternative to sitting at home and "reasoning" what is true........?!)
John Collins, Introduction to the Hebrew Bible 3rd ed.
“Biblical creation stories draw motifs from Mesopotamia, Much of the language and imagery of the Bible was culture specific and deeply embedded in the traditions of the Near East.
2nd ed. The Old Testament, Davies and Rogerson
“We know from the history of the composition of Gilamesh that ancient writers did adapt and re-use older stories……
It is safer to content ourselves with comparing the motifs and themes of Genesis with those of other ancient Near East texts.
In this way we acknowledge our belief that the biblical writers adapted existing stories, while we confess our ignorance about the form and content of the actual stories that the Biblical writers used.”
The Old Testament, A Historical and Literary Introduction to the Hebrew Scriptures, M. Coogan
“Genesis employs and alludes to mythical concepts and phrasing, but at the same time it also adapts transforms and rejected them”
God in Translation, Smith
“…the Bibles authors fashioned whatever they may have inherited of the Mesopotamian literary tradition on their own terms”
THE OT Text and Content, Matthews, Moyer
“….a great deal of material contained in the primeval epics in Genesis is borrowed and adapted from the ancient cultures of that region.”


The Formation of Genesis 1-11, Carr
“The previous discussion has made clear how this story in Genesis represents a complex juxtaposition of multiple traditions often found separately in the Mesopotamian literary world….”
The Priestly Vision of Genesis, Smith
“….storm God and cosmic enemies passed into Israelite tradition. The biblical God is not only generally similar to Baal as a storm god, but God inherited the names of Baal’s cosmic enemies, with names such as Leviathan, Sea, Death and Tanninim.”




Genesis/Enuma Elish


The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis. Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.



Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer, translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.

Both Genesis and Enuma Elsih are religious texts which detail and celebrate cultural origins: Genesis describes the origin and founding of the Jewish people under the guidance of the Lord; Enuma Elish recounts the origin and founding of Babylon under the leadership of the god Marduk. Contained in each work is a story of how the cosmos and man were created. Each work begins by describing the watery chaos and primeval darkness that once filled the universe. Then light is created to replace the darkness. Afterward, the heavens are made and in them heavenly bodies are placed. Finally, man is created.


The Epic of Atraḥasis is the fullest Mesopotamian account of the Great Flood, with Atraḥasis in the role of Noah. It was written in the seventeenth century BCE

The supreme god Enlil's decision to extinguish mankind by a Great Flood
Atraḥasis is warned in a dream
Enki explains the dream to Atraḥasis (and betrays the plan)
Construction of the Ark
Boarding of the Ark
Departure
The Great Flood



What likely happened according to archaeology and textual evidence is the Israelite kings returned from exile when Persia invaded. They were held in Babylon and were exposed to the different Mesopotamian creation myths and flood stories. Genesis was written around 600 B.C. when they returned to Israel and is a re-working of much older Mesopotamian stories.
It's how ALL religion works. A religious leader/writer says "our God has contacted me, I have the TRUE version of the typical old flood/creation story" and they use old myths and make some changes. Happens this way every time. Even with dying/rising savior demigods.
 
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joelr

Well-Known Member
now, let's get back to the topic, Jesus, God, the Ordinal First and Last.

there is only ONE Person who is God, name "JESUS", whom hold both titles, "Father/Ordinal First, who "MADE AND CREATED ALL THINGS, INCLUDING COMPUTERS AND CARS... ect.
His name was Joshua. Jesus is a English translation.

Every God created everything, even computers and cars. Still fiction.

In the Upanishads, Brahman becomes the eternal first cause, present everywhere and nowhere, always and never.
Brahman is the idea of ultimate reality that goes over an above everything else from God (or Gods), Devas, Asuras, humans, living, inanimate, thoughts, deeds, ...

Brahma is said to have created the entire universe, including himself.


In Vaishnavism, Vishnu is the supreme being who creates, protects, and transforms the universe.
Vishnu (or Viṣṇu, Sanskrit: विष्णु) means 'all pervasive'[17] and, according to Medhātith (c. 1000 CE), 'one who is everything and inside everything'.[18] Vedanga scholar Yaska (4th century BCE) in the Nirukta defines Vishnu as viṣṇur viṣvater vā vyaśnoter vā ('one who enters everywhere'); also adding atha yad viṣito bhavati tad viṣnurbhavati ('that which is free from fetters and bondage is Vishnu').



Look a book said it so it's TRUE!!!

 
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