Jesus in Heaven is not God

[Soapy]

It’s often said by Trinitarians that Jesus was a man on earth but resumed being God when he was raised up to Heaven. In fact the saying is that Jesus went BACK to being in Heaven.

Well, there are no claims by Jesus, himself, that he came from Heaven, only that he was ‘Going to the Father’, which is not a ‘RETURNING’.

Moreover, any suggestion that Jesus ‘RESUMED’ being God on being raised up to Heaven is debunked by the fact that ‘GOD’ is still greater than he:

• “In the sight of God, who gives life to everything (and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession) I charge you to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen. ” (1 Timothy 6:13-16)

Jesus Christ’s RETURN TO EARTH… will be when GOD decides it’s the right time.

Recall that Jesus, himself, said, when asked about his return:

• “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36)

which proves the Father as being ‘God’, as the two verses selections align perfectly.

In addition, we know that ‘No one has seen the God at any time’ - which tallies with the last part of the previous quoted verse: 1 Tim 6:16, ‘… whom no one has seen or can see’.

Can anyone, in sincere honesty and righteousness, still claim that Jesus is ‘God’?

 

[Eli G]

About this topic, this passage is interesting:

Rev. 14:14 Then I saw, and look! a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was someone like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.
15 Another angel emerged from the temple sanctuary, calling with a loud voice to the one seated on the cloud: “Put your sickle in and reap, because the hour has come to reap, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 And the one seated on the cloud thrust his sickle into the earth, and the earth was reaped.

So, YES, it is God who decides the moment for His purpose to be fulfilled ... not Jesus.

Inhabitants of heaven do not consider Jesus as their God:

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

 

[Soapy]

About this topic, this passage is interesting:

Rev. 14:14 Then I saw, and look! a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was someone like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.
15 Another angel emerged from the temple sanctuary, calling with a loud voice to the one seated on the cloud: “Put your sickle in and reap, because the hour has come to reap, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 And the one seated on the cloud thrust his sickle into the earth, and the earth was reaped.

So, YES, it is God who decides the moment for His purpose to be fulfilled ... not Jesus.

Inhabitants of heaven do not consider Jesus as their God:

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

Yes, this is true. God demanded a pure blood sacrificial offering from a sinless MAN. All the temple sacrifices and ceremonies related to this fact were embodies and symbolised with a pure bred, unblemished lamb. Trinitarians do not like to discuss this point when it is related to Jesus being God because they know it doesn’t work.

They gladly speak of Jesus Christ as the sacrificial lamb in contexts that do not relate to Jesus as being Almighty God since the audience’s mind will have be set away from the claim that Trinitarians make, saying Jesus Christ IS GOD but we are to follow ‘CHRIST’.

So why do you think so many people who call themselves, Christians, believe that Jesus IS GOD, when clearly, even their own belief system title, ‘Christian’, points to the following of the ways of the MAN, Jesus Christ, and not GOD, the spiritual Father of Jesus Christ?

Why is the call to be followers of ‘Christ’ (The anointed one!) and not followers of ‘God’ (the Anointer)?

 

[101G]

Well, there are no claims by Jesus, himself, that he came from Heaven, only that he was ‘Going to the Father’, which is not a ‘RETURNING’.

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

101G.

 

[Soapy]

John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

101G.

Explain ‘Ye are from beneath’.

Explain ‘I am not of this world’.

Neither are related to anything concerning Heaven.

 

[101G]

Explain ‘Ye are from beneath’.

Explain ‘I am not of this world’.

Neither are related to anything concerning Heaven.

John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."
self explanatory. but, PROSPECTIVE, "Ye are from beneath", U and I are earthly... Carnal. "I am from above" heavenly, (spirit), not with respect to his human body. which he "TOOK ON".

"ye are of this world", meaning "BORN" in NATURAL Flesh of a Man and a Woman... hence you and I have a mother and Father. but the Lord Jesus is not Born, but Given, hence made flesh by taking Part in, in, our Humanity, meaning he has no HUMAN father nor HUMAN Mother..... (smile).

he, God, JESUS, only came into this world in order to save. so, no, he not of, of, of, of, this world. but he made it.... (smile).

101G.

 

[Soapy]

John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."
self explanatory. but, PROSPECTIVE, "Ye are from beneath", U and I are earthly... Carnal. "I am from above" heavenly, (spirit), not with respect to his human body. which he "TOOK ON".

"ye are of this world", meaning "BORN" in NATURAL Flesh of a Man and a Woman... hence you and I have a mother and Father. but the Lord Jesus is not Born, but Given, hence made flesh by taking Part in, in, our Humanity, meaning he has no HUMAN father nor HUMAN Mother..... (smile).

he, God, JESUS, only came into this world in order to save. so, no, he not of, of, of, of, this world. but he made it.... (smile).

101G.

John 8:26 & 28:

• “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he [The Father] who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him [The Father] I tell the world.”
• ‘So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he [The Messiah] and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.”’

Someone who is ‘in the world’ is one who is subject to sin and unrighteousness.

Similarly, one who is ‘from above’ is ‘Not in the World’ (see definition above) and one who is ‘from below’ is ‘in the world’ (see definition above)

Jesus Christ speaks what he hears from God.

Jesus did not create nor made the world. There are no valid scriptures that makes such a claim - and there is no logic to such a claim since the [almost] unmistranslatable Hebrew of the Torah says nothing but that God created all things by himself: a group of three is not a ‘He / him / I / My’…

 

[Colt]

It’s often said by Trinitarians that Jesus was a man on earth but resumed being God when he was raised up to Heaven. In fact the saying is that Jesus went BACK to being in Heaven.

Well, there are no claims by Jesus, himself, that he came from Heaven, only that he was ‘Going to the Father’, which is not a ‘RETURNING’.

Moreover, any suggestion that Jesus ‘RESUMED’ being God on being raised up to Heaven is debunked by the fact that ‘GOD’ is still greater than he:

• “In the sight of God, who gives life to everything (and of Christ Jesus, who while testifying before Pontius Pilate made the good confession) I charge you to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen. ” (1 Timothy 6:13-16)

Jesus Christ’s RETURN TO EARTH… will be when GOD decides it’s the right time.

Recall that Jesus, himself, said, when asked about his return:

• “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36)

which proves the Father as being ‘God’, as the two verses selections align perfectly.

In addition, we know that ‘No one has seen the God at any time’ - which tallies with the last part of the previous quoted verse: 1 Tim 6:16, ‘… whom no one has seen or can see’.

Can anyone, in sincere honesty and righteousness, still claim that Jesus is ‘God’?

Jesus returned from the death of his body on his own volition becuse the Son of God never died.

Jesus has all power and authority in heaven and on earth. He is to all intents and purposes God to us while his father is also God. They are indistinguishable in spirit.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus returned from the death of his body on his own volition becuse the Son of God never died.

Jesus has all power and authority in heaven and on earth. He is to all intents and purposes God to us while his father is also God. They are indistinguishable in spirit.

The spirit never ‘dies’…

A spirit cannot ‘die’.

Spirit can only be ‘DESTROYED’.

Whether Lazarus, Moses, David, Adam, Abraham, Jesus Christ, You, I… Man or Angel; when the SPIRIT is removed from the BODY, the Spirit RETURNS TO GOD and is DORMANT. It is not ‘DEAD’.

The BODY, however, which is sustained by the SPIRIT that was in it, now decays back to dust since it no longer has an agency to directs it in sustenance.

There is no difference between Moses or Abraham or David or you or I or Jesus … dying and our Spirit being taken up to God:

• “God who Gave It”
• God, the Creator of Spirits; the Father of Spirits

Jesus ‘GAVE UP HIS SPIRIT’ when he ‘DIED’, which is to say, “His Spirit departed from his body and rested with God” which is the same for all mankind.

God, however, declared that the BODY of Jesus Christ ‘should not see decay’ and so RESURRECTED Jesus after three days and nights - WHICH IS WHAT Jesus MEANT when he told the Jews that they would not get a sign from him EXCEPT THE SIGN OF JONAH who was in the ‘Grave’ of the great fish for the same period of time.

‘Resurrection’ … The Spirit of the person is put back into the BODY of the person. In Jesus’ case the BODY was the SAME (remember that it had not decayed!) BUT ALSO MADE GLORIFIED!!!

‘The Son of God never died’? If the Son of God never died (that is, his spirit never left his body - for three days!) then the salvation of mankind has not been accomplished and humanity is still living in the death sentence brought by the sin of Adam that condemned all mankind to eternal death (that is: destruction of the spirit)

 

[Colt]

The spirit never ‘dies’…

A spirit cannot ‘die’.

Spirit can only be ‘DESTROYED’.

Whether Lazarus, Moses, David, Adam, Abraham, Jesus Christ, You, I… Man or Angel; when the SPIRIT is removed from the BODY, the Spirit RETURNS TO GOD and is DORMANT. It is not ‘DEAD’.

The BODY, however, which is sustained by the SPIRIT that was in it, now decays back to dust since it no longer has an agency to directs it in sustenance.

There is no difference between Moses or Abraham or David or you or I or Jesus … dying and our Spirit being taken up to God:

• “God who Gave It”
• God, the Creator of Spirits; the Father of Spirits

Jesus ‘GAVE UP HIS SPIRIT’ when he ‘DIED’, which is to say, “His Spirit departed from his body and rested with God” which is the same for all mankind.

God, however, declared that the BODY of Jesus Christ ‘should not see decay’ and so RESURRECTED Jesus after three days and nights - WHICH IS WHAT Jesus MEANT when he told the Jews that they would not get a sign from him EXCEPT THE SIGN OF JONAH who was in the ‘Grave’ of the great fish for the same period of time.

‘Resurrection’ … The Spirit of the person is put back into the BODY of the person. In Jesus’ case the BODY was the SAME (remember that it had not decayed!) BUT ALSO MADE GLORIFIED!!!

‘The Son of God never died’? If the Son of God never died (that is, his spirit never left his body - for three days!) then the salvation of mankind has not been accomplished and humanity is still living in the death sentence brought by the sin of Adam that condemned all mankind to eternal death (that is: destruction of the spirit)

Jesus never taught that salvation was conditional to his death as some sort of pagan sacrifice to please God and atone for the sins of the world. That new Gospel emerged after Jesus left. The old Gospel of the Kingdom was forgotten.

Jesus flatly said, "Tear down this temple (his body) and in 3 days I will raise it up again." They did kill his body, he waited three days and returned on his own in a new form. In the new form Jesus could appear and disappear in locked room and before other believers.

We don't take our bodies with us to heaven, it returns to dust on earth. We will be given the new form in heaven like Jesus returned in.

 

[Eli G]

The spirit never ‘dies’…
A spirit cannot ‘die’.
Spirit can only be ‘DESTROYED’.
(...) ‘The Son of God never died’? If the Son of God never died (that is, his spirit never left his body - for three days!) then the salvation of mankind has not been accomplished and humanity is still living in the death sentence brought by the sin of Adam that condemned all mankind to eternal death (that is: destruction of the spirit)

So, just to clarify your belief:

do you think that the spirit that leaves the body at the moment of death is aware of its environment and interacts with it in a consciously way?

 

[Soapy]

Jesus never taught that salvation was conditional to his death as some sort of pagan sacrifice to please God and atone for the sins of the world. That new Gospel emerged after Jesus left. The old Gospel of the Kingdom was forgotten.

Jesus flatly said, "Tear down this temple (his body) and in 3 days I will raise it up again." They did kill his body, he waited three days and returned on his own in a new form. In the new form Jesus could appear and disappear in locked room and before other believers.

We don't take our bodies with us to heaven, it returns to dust on earth. We will be given the new form in heaven like Jesus returned in.

I see it’s pointless to debate with you as you are just sarcastically expressing an opinion based on misrepresentation of the scriptures.

‘Tear down this temple’ is nothing to do with Jesus’ physical body. If you notice, it is a COMMENTARY from the scripture writer!!

The ‘Temple’ Jesus refers to, is the BODY of BELIEVERS:

• ‘He is the HEAD of the BODY’

Which means exactly what happened after Jesus died… the BODY of believers scattered because of lack of belief… some saying, if he really was the messiah then how could he have died!!?

Notice, also, that even the disciples ‘went back to their day job - Jesus appeared on the sea shore while Peter and the crew were fishing instead of preaching the kingdom of Heaven.

So, Jesus RESURRECTED to BODY of believers by appearing to them.

Just did your research: Where does it say that Jesus raised himself from the grave - WHO says that Jesus raised himself from the grave?

Answer: NO ONE!! Every claim of the resurrection of Jesus says that ‘GOD’ (‘The Father’) raised him up… SPECIFICALLY, the SPIRIT OF GOD raised him up from the grave.

The reason for Jesus’ appearance and disappearance (though there is no claim Jesus ‘disappeared’ from the room) is that a SPIRITUAL BODY - A GLORIFIED BODY is not like an everyday human body. It is ‘calling together of chemical material into a human body shape’ therefore it can just as easily be dematerialised - as when Jesus was lifted up in front of the disciples… his body dematerialised as he was lifted up which is why the observers claimed he disappeared in a ‘CLOUD’. And, by the way, being lifted up ‘into Heaven’ is only a metaphor… Heaven is not ‘UP’ physically… it’s just an expression to refer to being in a glorified place rather than ‘down’ in a repressive, inglorious place.

Take our bodies to Heaven? Whoever made that claim… You stare a fallacy, accuse me of thinking it, then make a disclaimer as if I originated the fallacy? EVERYONE KNOWS and confesses that the body (without the Spirit) DECAYS TO DUST…

Why did you say what you did???: “We don't take our bodies with us to heaven”

 

[Soapy]

So, just to clarify your belief:

do you think that the spirit that leaves the body at the moment of death is aware of its environment and interacts with it in a consciously way?

The Spirit of a human person is the driver for the activity of the body. When the Spirit leaves the body there is no more interaction with the body NOR WITH ANYTHING ELSE. Think of a car without a driver. … oh! I know, you are going to point to ‘Smart Cars’… no! Just your big standard vehicle: Without a driver (Spirit) in the car it is a ‘DEAD’ car and without intervention of the driver (owner, etc) will turn to rust and a pile of metal and plastic!!

The Spirit becomes DORMANT; INERT; UNRESPONSIVE. And, No, the dormant, inert Spirit is not aware of its environment.

Are you referring to [Saint] Paul? DREAMING or INTENSE DEEP THOUGHT can temporarily de-attach the Spirit from the body - but not absolutely like in ‘Death’. The spirit still needs the MIND of its host in order to function - to keep the body breathing, functioning, but might not directly or immediately respond to external stimuli. Think of someone in a COMA… or ‘Out of their mind’ on drugs or alcohol…
I think there was an episode where Jesus was in a trance while praying the night before he was die. He instructed the accompanying disciples to watch over him in case some calamity should befall his body… His Spirit was so deep in contemplation and silent prayer to God about what was about to occur the next day that it temporarily detached from reacting to external stimuli like voices or disturbance ((It’s not for here but I read a book in which a wizard was said to do the same and asked a friend to look after him as he went into a trance - mythically for his spirit to search for a lost soul among the dead!!)) Jesus healed a girl who was in a coma - ‘reattached’ her Spirit to her body. He expressly told the onlookers that the girl WAS NOT DEAD but ONLY ‘SLEEPING’. Of course, no one in his time knew about a Coma and would just presume the girl had passed in death!

Or were you referring to ‘GHOSTS’ (disembodied Spirits of medieval belief in the Dark Ages?)

 

[Soapy]

Jesus never taught that salvation was conditional to his death as some sort of pagan sacrifice to please God and atone for the sins of the world. That new Gospel emerged after Jesus left. The old Gospel of the Kingdom was forgotten.

Jesus flatly said, "Tear down this temple (his body) and in 3 days I will raise it up again." They did kill his body, he waited three days and returned on his own in a new form. In the new form Jesus could appear and disappear in locked room and before other believers.

We don't take our bodies with us to heaven, it returns to dust on earth. We will be given the new form in heaven like Jesus returned in.

Luke 9:22:

• “And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”

Romans 6:23:

• “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Romans 5:10:

• “For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!”

More…

I think you said that JESUS never said he must die for the salvation of mankind… A very large portion of scripture speaks for him!!!

 

[101G]

Someone who is ‘in the world’ is one who is subject to sin and unrighteousness.

ERROR, not necessary so. scripture, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

I think you said that JESUS never said he must die for the salvation of mankind… A very large portion of scripture speaks for him!!!

why think KNOW.... see above.

101G.

 

[Colt]

Luke 9:22:

• “And he said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”

Romans 6:23:

• “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Romans 5:10:

• “For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!”

More…

I think you said that JESUS never said he must die for the salvation of mankind… A very large portion of scripture speaks for him!!!

You assume that when Jesus foretold his death it was a requirement by God for forgiveness. Jesus knew that he and his gospel was going to be rejected.

Matthew 21:33-46 reads:

“Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower and he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit and the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one and stoned another. Again he sent other servants, more than the first and they did likewise to them. Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him. “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?” They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.” Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected

Has become the chief cornerstone.

This was the Lord’s doing,

And it is marvelous in our eyes?’

“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it and whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them, but when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.”

Are you claiming that God the Father represented in this parable as the "absent landowner" wanted his son rejected and killed???? That he wanted the Jews to reject his Son???​

 

[Soapy]

ERROR, not necessary so. scripture, Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

You need to go study the truth. This verse states that death comes to all mankind IRRESPECTIVE of their pious status… even those who do not sin will be destroyed in the spirit. The purpose of the sinless unblemished Messiah dying is to offset this death of all mankind:

• One sinless man dying for the salvation of all mankind

 

[Colt]

You need to go study the truth. This verse states that death comes to all mankind IRRESPECTIVE of their pious status… even those who do not sin will be destroyed in the spirit. The purpose of the sinless unblemished Messiah dying is to offset this death of all mankind:

• One sinless man dying for the salvation of all mankind

Death came specifically to Adam who was a Son of God. Adam and Eve were immortal until they sinned. But death or translation was already normal for mankind. Sin is a knowing choice, not an inheritance! The doctrine of original sin is false. The speculation that Jesus died as a sin sacrifice is Pagan speculation. Jesus taught salvation through faith.

 

[Soapy]

You assume that when Jesus foretold his death it was a requirement by God for forgiveness. Jesus knew that he and his gospel was going to be rejected.

Matthew 21:33-46 reads:

“Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower and he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit and the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one and stoned another. Again he sent other servants, more than the first and they did likewise to them. Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him. “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?” They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.” Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected

Has become the chief cornerstone.

This was the Lord’s doing,

And it is marvelous in our eyes?’

“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it and whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them, but when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.”

Are you claiming that God the Father represented in this parable as the "absent landowner" wanted his son rejected and killed???? That he wanted the Jews to reject his Son???​

Oh boy! Such lack of understanding.

God DESIRES that all mankind turn to him and be saved.

BUT God also knows that because man has free Will, and that Satan is strong on deceit, many will not turn to him.

God does not DICTATE what a man does (unless God commissions that msn for a special task - and woe-betide if that man doesn’t deliver - take Jonah - take Moses - take Balaam…) exactly because God gave him free Will to do the right thing.

Just in case you don’t know it: God chose the nation of Israel as his ‘FirstBorn’ (Most beloved nation) out of all the nations of the world. These Israelites (later called Jews) were meant to believe in the messiah, turn to God, and then TEACH OTHER NATIONS (Gentiles / Pagans / Heathens) to do likewise. Remember also that that throughout MANY THOUSANDS OF YEARS the ‘Jews’ had been witness to disasters AND BEEN SAVED BY GOD when they turned to Him. This Messiah (Jesus) was expected to be YET another like before, saving them MILITARILY from their oppressors - the Romans. The appearance of a messiah preaching love peace and love thine enemy was counter to what they were expecting - hence the mass denial that Jesus was in fact the LONG AWAITED - The Fully Prophesied - LAST MESSIAH.

Jesus said, and you wrote it out, ‘The kingdom WILL BE TAKEN AWAY FROM YOU AND GIVEN TO ANOTHER’.

This type of saying is one of a last, an end, a frustration of an expectation: God sent him on a mission to rally the Jews back to God and be saved - but they rejected the messiah and thus the kingdom of God was opened up to ALL MANKIND be they Jew, Gentile, free or slave, Greek or Roman (pagans)… as long as they ACCEPTED the Father as their only true GOD, and Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour SENT BY GOD:

• ‘[Father]…, Eternal life depends on them believing in you, the only true God, and in Jesus Christ whom you sent’
  • [A true belief in the only true God necessarily also requires a belief in the servant God sent - so the [my] italic part is a bit overstated : Tautological]

 

[Colt]

Oh boy! Such lack of understanding.

God DESIRES that all mankind turn to him and be saved.

BUT God also knows that because man has free Will, and that Satan is strong on deceit, many will not turn to him.

God does not DICTATE what a man does (unless God commissions that msn for a special task - and woe-betide if that man doesn’t deliver - take Jonah - take Moses - take

Its your own lack of understanding. The hope was that the Jews would receive the long anticipated Son of God, but they rejected his Gospel and killed the Son! It was the will of the devil that the Son be rejected and killed NOT the Father!

If the Israelites would have received the Son and the original Gospel then they would be preaching it today from the Temple mount and the Son would have disposed of his mortal flesh in a manner of his own choosing and returned to his rightful place in heaven.