Audie
Veteran Member
Semi historical fiction?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Jesus is a Fictional Character
- Thread starter Nakosis
- Start date
Semi historical fiction?
Audie
Veteran Member
As real as the flood?
As you say, Jesus didn't write anything.
We have nothing written by anyone who ever met him.
There appears to have been a cult of which he was the central figure, before Paul's time. There are scholarly arguments that eg Philippians 2:5-11 (the "kenosis hymn") predates Paul and is from such a cult.
An historical Jesus isn't necessary to explain the gospels (which are largely explained if Mark is explained).
I think the strongest arguments for an historical Jesus are the way Jesus fights with his mother and family in all four gospels (the criterion of embarrassment) and the point mentioned by Bart Ehrman that none of the opponents of the early church used the argument that he didn't exist.
However, there's no clincher either way.
If there was an historical Jesus, we have very little idea of what he actually said.
And I've never been able to get my mind around the idea of God sending an emissary to earth with orders to get killed so that God could forgive everyone's sins.
Last edited:
Heyo
Veteran Member
I'm going with "legendary" like @ChristineM. Richard Carrier's "mythical Jesus" requires a conspiracy of at least Paul and Peter. It is much more likely that Jesus is a legend based on one or more real people.
Audie
Veteran Member
Pay me for offending me by tortuting someone?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Most scholars in the field kind of agree that a man called Jesus lived. He may have been called a Messiah among a plethora of others who called themselves messiah. historically. But of course anyone who believes in Jesus as a part of their theology would definitely feel a need to insist that he existed. But I dont know why some others "feel a need to insist" either he didnt exist or that he is a fictional character.
That seems to be the gig. Incomprehensible, since God is billed as benevolent and omnipotent, but instead of shrugging and muttering, Okay, they're all forgiven, [he] dispatches [his] son on a particularly gruesome suicide mission. Just plain weird.
lukethethird
unknown member
That's show biz, or should I say, that's theology?
lukethethird
unknown member
What is that suppose to mean? Everybody has a problem with people being Christian, are we to suppose that you don't?
lukethethird
unknown member
Realer.
Audie
Veteran Member
My guess is that with their guy dead in the
most thoroughly degrading way available, they managed to snatch victory by later spreading
a rumour that he not merely survived but
went to heaven, promising to come right back
and show the badguys a thing or two.
Its been done elsewhere, the god/man who
will be back. Lono, say.
Tacking on that it had been necessary for
remission of sin was, I guess, necessary to
explain how and why it happened.
If he really came back to life, going
to " Pilate" or whoever to ask, " Want to
try again?" seems a lost opportunity but oh well
Audie
Veteran Member
That is faint praise
It means exactly what it says.
No, I have absolutely no problem with people being Christian.
lukethethird
unknown member
It's just one of those things that nobody knows, and some people just like to remind some people of that.
lukethethird
unknown member
Well then, aren't you special.
Well, many people just have faith that Jesus was real and maybe that's a good thing. We can trust people through generations.
I'll bet if I turned the table and said what proof do you have that Jesus
Many people just have faith in Him. Maybe trusting through generations is helpful.
May I put the shoe on your foot and ask what evidence do you have Jesus isn't real? You'd probably say miracles but they are a matter of faith too.
Using that logic, then 99.9% of past humanity was fictional.
Heyo
Veteran Member
To be fair, it is mostly Christians who have problems with people being Christian.
DNB
Christian
Countless men were burned, hung, martyred for the name of Christ Jesus, and these men were either contemporaneous to Jesus (had time to investigate the lie), or within the very early centuries after his death, and centuries after. Both the Gregorian and Julian calendar systems were based on his birth. He is mentioned in extra-Biblical literature, by those who lived in his era. Jesus is not a fictional name, it means Joshua in Hebrew, and others had forms of his name 'Bar-Jesus' or 'Jesus Barabbas'.
He didn't write anything, but what he spoke had so much impact that at least 8 other men wrote about him, and their works were copied by the tens of thousands, in multiple languages, in various geographical locations.
By the 3rd century AD, countless Christians were persecuted and tortured to death, and the movement never relented but grew to be one of the largest religions in the world. Millions of dollars, and millions of lives invested in the growth and sustainment of Jesus' legacy.
It would be much harder to substantiate how such a fallacy persisted at such a rate and intensity, than to concede his historicity.
Colt
Well-Known Member
Jesus didn’t leave any writings on purpose and spirit is still doing its own work.
I’m trying to think of other supposedly fictional characters that Jews left their religion for to persecution and death?