Jesus is God.

[kalyan]

If people are worshipping Shiva lingam in mecca why would they say Allahu akbar and recite Sarah's from the Quran? And how did the lingam become square?

just because recital of something is not proof of iits pre-history. Angkor wat is A VishNu templle but it later was converted to buddhist shrine, coming to ur question
because it has 360 deities in it, which were partially broken by muhammad...I called it Lingam because it is identical to it albeit broken ...No where muslims worships a black stone..The black stone at Kaaba is held sacred and holy in Islam and is called "Hajre Aswad" from the Sanskrit word Sanghey Ashweta or Non-white stone. The Shiva Lingam is also called Sanghey Ashweta.


As the pilgrim proceeds towards Mecca he is asked to shave his head and beard and to don special sacred attire that consists of two seamless sheets of white cloth. One is to be worn round the waist and the other over the shoulders. Both these rites are remnants of the old Vedic practice of entering Hindu temples clean- and with holy seamless white sheets.The main shrine in Mecca, which houses the Siva emblem, is known as the Kaaba. It is clothed in a black shroud. That custom also originates from the days when it was thought necessary to discourage its recapture by camouflaging it.Muslim pilgrims visiting the Kaaba temple go around it seven times. In no other mosque does the circumambulation prevail. Hindus invariably circumambulate or Pradakshina, around their deities

here is the black stone they worship, ITS BROKEN , base itself is a give away that it is linga

 

[Subhankar Zac]

If people are worshipping Shiva lingam in mecca why would they say Allahu akbar and recite Sarah's from the Quran? And how did the lingam become square?

It is not a Shiva Lingam. The Mecca in ancient times was a shrine of Hubal, a moon God of Arabia, defended by the Quaryish tribe.
The black stone is believed to the stone of Hubal where pilgrims would kiss the stone to receive blessings.
Hubal was mainly the God of divination and had a statue of him as well with other 360 Gods.
Muhammad destroyed those stAtues, including of Hubal but it is theorized that the stones were never touched by him.
Reason remains unknown. So, the black stones which more accurately is much like a meteor remains inside the Mecca is believed to be the stones of Hubal.
Which is why people often call Allah a moon God.
The rhetoric of it being a Shiva Lingam is an illogical idea by Hindu nationalists who desperately wish to create a communal war in India between Hindus and Muslims by lying to them of how Muslims stole a Hindu shrine.
The claim has no scientific validity and is only supported by violent Hindu fanatics with ties to extremist Hindu groups like the one you were talking to.
If it is a pagan shrine, it's of Hubal, not any Hindu deity.

 

[firedragon]

It is not a Shiva Lingam. The Mecca in ancient times was a shrine of Hubal, a moon God of Arabia, defended by the Quaryish tribe.
The black stone is believed to the stone of Hubal where pilgrims would kiss the stone to receive blessings.
Hubal was mainly the God of divination and had a statue of him as well with other 360 Gods.
Muhammad destroyed those stAtues, including of Hubal but it is theorized that the stones were never touched by him.
Reason remains unknown. So, the black stones which more accurately is much like a meteor remains inside the Mecca is believed to be the stones of Hubal.
Which is why people often call Allah a moon God.
The rhetoric of it being a Shiva Lingam is an illogical idea by Hindu nationalists who desperately wish to create a communal war in India between Hindus and Muslims by lying to them of how Muslims stole a Hindu shrine.
The claim has no scientific validity and is only supported by violent Hindu fanatics with ties to extremist Hindu groups like the one you were talking to.
If it is a pagan shrine, it's of Hubal, not any Hindu deity.

A thousand years ago my house could have been a cemetery.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

A thousand years ago my house could have been a cemetery.

Precisely.
But it's another thing to destroy a public property to dictate their beliefs.
Or else no one would care when ISIS destroyed most of Palmyra like Muhammad did to the pagan shrine of Mecca.
If a land isn't claimed, go for it.
If it is, you have no right to dictate it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The rhetoric of it being a Shiva Lingam is an illogical idea by Hindu nationalists who desperately wish to create a communal war in India between Hindus and Muslims by lying to them of how Muslims stole a Hindu shrine.
The claim has no scientific validity and is only supported by violent Hindu fanatics with ties to extremist Hindu groups like the one you were talking to.

Indeed. Far-right Hindu nationalism is poisonous and it's a big danger to India now.

 

[firedragon]

just because recital of something is not proof of iits pre-history. Angkor wat is A VishNu templle but it later was converted to buddhist shrine, coming to ur question
because it has 360 deities in it, which were partially broken by muhammad...I called it Lingam because it is identical to it albeit broken ...No where muslims worships a black stone..The black stone at Kaaba is held sacred and holy in Islam and is called "Hajre Aswad" from the Sanskrit word Sanghey Ashweta or Non-white stone. The Shiva Lingam is also called Sanghey Ashweta.


As the pilgrim proceeds towards Mecca he is asked to shave his head and beard and to don special sacred attire that consists of two seamless sheets of white cloth. One is to be worn round the waist and the other over the shoulders. Both these rites are remnants of the old Vedic practice of entering Hindu temples clean- and with holy seamless white sheets.The main shrine in Mecca, which houses the Siva emblem, is known as the Kaaba. It is clothed in a black shroud. That custom also originates from the days when it was thought necessary to discourage its recapture by camouflaging it.Muslim pilgrims visiting the Kaaba temple go around it seven times. In no other mosque does the circumambulation prevail. Hindus invariably circumambulate or Pradakshina, around their deities

here is the black stone they worship, ITS BROKEN , base itself is a give away that it is linga

Good theory.

 

[Desert Snake]

I recall some one saying that the box or whatever, was emply, lol /kabaa

 

[firedragon]

Precisely.
But it's another thing to destroy a public property to dictate their beliefs.
Or else no one would care when ISIS destroyed most of Palmyra like Muhammad did to the pagan shrine of Mecca.
If a land isn't claimed, go for it.
If it is, you have no right to dictate it.

Let me ask you something. How do you know for sure that Muhammed broke all statues in the kaaba?

 

[kalyan]

Good theory.

do you see muslims worshipping black stones anywhere other than mecca .? you can try to live in denial and be lazy to know the pre-islamic arabia but that does not change the facts. You have nto put a single counter argument

 

[kalyan]

I recall some one saying that the box or whatever, was emply, lol /kabaa

the stone was broken into multiple parts and they are stitched later...The isis pledged to destroy it because they know it is a disguised broken powerless Shiva lingam

 

[kalyan]

Indeed. Far-right Hindu nationalism is poisonous and it's a big danger to India now.

instead of putting a generalized stamtement, dont u see the resemblance the broken stone and the actual shiva lingam or you jhust want to ignore as it does not suit your ideology

 

[Subhankar Zac]

Let me ask you something. How do you know for sure that Muhammed broke all statues in the kaaba?

What does the Hadith and other Scriptures say about destruction of the statues then if not by Muhammad?

 

[firedragon]

do you see muslims worshipping black stones anywhere other than mecca .? you can try to live in denial and be lazy to know the pre-islamic arabia but that does not change the facts. You have nto put a single counter argument

Why should I have counter arguments? Lol. I am too lazy to know the previous Islamic Arabia as you said it right? So explain to me. What was pretty historic Arabia. What was mecca before Muhammed. What is the source, I mean the original source of your information?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

instead of putting a generalized stamtement, dont u see the resemblance the broken stone and the actual shiva lingam or you jhust want to ignore as it does not suit your ideology

No, I don't think that (probable) meteorite is a lingam or has anything to do with Hinduism.

 

[firedragon]

What does the Hadith and other Scriptures say about destruction of the statues then if not by Muhammad?

I know what the hadith says mate. But what other scripture are you talking about?

 

[kalyan]

Why should I have counter arguments? Lol. I am too lazy to know the previous Islamic Arabia as you said it right? So explain to me. What was pretty historic Arabia. What was mecca before Muhammed. What is the source, I mean the original source of your information?

For pre-islamic arabai you need information from sayur-ul-okul..It mentions about culture and life style of pre-islamic arabia...From this we can infer that pre-islamic arabia worshipped Siva in some form.

SAYAR-UL-OKUL

SAYAR-UL-OKUL is a written by UMAR-BINE-HASSNAM
(Poetic Title: ABBUL-HIQAM meaning Father of Knowledge).
He was an uncle of prophet Mohammed. He refused to get
converted to Islam. He died a martyr at the hands of Muslim
fanatics who wanted to wipe out non-Muslims.

He was a renowned poet and wrote many verses in praise of Shiva. One of these has survived on page 235 of Sair-Ul-Okul and reads as follows:

Kafavomal fikra min ulumin Tab asayru
Kaluwan amataul Hawa was Tajakhru
We Tajakhayroba udan Kalalwade-E Liboawa
Walukayanay jatally, hay Yauma Tab asayru
Wa Abalolha ajabu armeeman MAHADEVAManojail ilamuddin minhum wa sayattaru
Wa Sahabi Kay-yam feema-Kamil MINDAY Yauman
Wa Yakulum no latabahan foeennak Tawjjaru
Massayaray akhalakan hasanan Kullahum
Najumum aja- at Summa gabul HINDU



which translates as:



The man who may spend his life in sin
and irreligion or waste it in lechery and wrath
If at least he relent and return to
righteousness can he be saved?
If but once he worship Mahadeva with a pure
heart, he will attain the ultimate in spirituality.
Oh Lord Shiva exchange my entire life for but
a day's sojourn in India where one attains salvation.
But one pilgrimage there secures for one all
merit and company of the truly great.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

I know what the hadith says mate. But what other scripture are you talking about?

M not a Muslim so I've never read the Hadith. And mainstream belief is that muhammud after he conquered Mecca In 630 AD, he destroyed all the stAtues of Mecca as idolatry was sinful in his view.
If any alternative story exists, please tell me.

 

[firedragon]

For pre-islamic arabai you need information from sayur-ul-okul..It mentions about culture and life style of pre-islamic arabia...From this we can infer that pre-islamic arabia worshipped Siva in some form.

SAYAR-UL-OKUL

SAYAR-UL-OKUL is a written by UMAR-BINE-HASSNAM
(Poetic Title: ABBUL-HIQAM meaning Father of Knowledge).
He was an uncle of prophet Mohammed. He refused to get
converted to Islam. He died a martyr at the hands of Muslim
fanatics who wanted to wipe out non-Muslims.

He was a renowned poet and wrote many verses in praise of Shiva. One of these has survived on page 235 of Sair-Ul-Okul and reads as follows:

Kafavomal fikra min ulumin Tab asayru
Kaluwan amataul Hawa was Tajakhru
We Tajakhayroba udan Kalalwade-E Liboawa
Walukayanay jatally, hay Yauma Tab asayru
Wa Abalolha ajabu armeeman MAHADEVAManojail ilamuddin minhum wa sayattaru
Wa Sahabi Kay-yam feema-Kamil MINDAY Yauman
Wa Yakulum no latabahan foeennak Tawjjaru
Massayaray akhalakan hasanan Kullahum
Najumum aja- at Summa gabul HINDU



which translates as:



The man who may spend his life in sin
and irreligion or waste it in lechery and wrath
If at least he relent and return to
righteousness can he be saved?
If but once he worship Mahadeva with a pure
heart, he will attain the ultimate in spirituality.
Oh Lord Shiva exchange my entire life for but
a day's sojourn in India where one attains salvation.
But one pilgrimage there secures for one all
merit and company of the truly great.

Mate. Its been so many years that somehow I knew where this was coming from. P Nagesh Oak.

This is a useless debate and I am not gonna go there.

But let me tell you something, Islam means submission/Peace. Hinduism comes from the geographical location where the theology originated from. The Islamic belief is even Hinduism comes from Islam, not the Arabic word Islam, the religion. There is one God.

The Quranic teaching is that Muhammed is just another prophet, thus Islam didnt come to exist with him.

If you read the Hindu scripture, it says Na thasya prathima Asthi. I know this is a hacked shloka from Yajurved but dont you see that scripture teaches there is no image of God? Then why would you speak of God's genitals. What is the significance of a stone covering that looks more like the Yoni than the Linga? Even if it does look like the Lingam still whats the significance. Do you know the traditional grinder that our grand parents used looks just like the Shiva Lingam? Does that mean that has some Hindu religious value?

Now according to Chandogya upanishad God is like no other, which I believe runs through most Hindu scriptures. Thus, Allah, the Arabic word could very represent the God Hindus worship. But calling Allah the Hindu God is a bit stupid. One problem with that is, Hindu belongs to the region, and God means Allah.

 

[kalyan]

Mate. Its been so many years that somehow I knew where this was coming from. P Nagesh Oak.

This is a useless debate and I am not gonna go there.

But let me tell you something, Islam means submission/Peace. Hinduism comes from the geographical location where the theology originated from. The Islamic belief is even Hinduism comes from Islam, not the Arabic word Islam, the religion. There is one God.

The Quranic teaching is that Muhammed is just another prophet, thus Islam didnt come to exist with him.

If you read the Hindu scripture, it says Na thasya prathima Asthi. I know this is a hacked shloka from Yajurved but dont you see that scripture teaches there is no image of God? Then why would you speak of God's genitals. What is the significance of a stone covering that looks more like the Yoni than the Linga? Even if it does look like the Lingam still whats the significance. Do you know the traditional grinder that our grand parents used looks just like the Shiva Lingam? Does that mean that has some Hindu religious value?

Now according to Chandogya upanishad God is like no other, which I believe runs through most Hindu scriptures. Thus, Allah, the Arabic word could very represent the God Hindus worship. But calling Allah the Hindu God is a bit stupid. One problem with that is, Hindu belongs to the region, and God means Allah.

god is formless means he is not nirvikara but he is beyond all forms and is in each form.

I dont care where that comes from if it is Nagesh oak or someone, but the stuff he/she put out is astounding. It is clear that mecca follows pre-islamic vedic tradition and the stuff that goes on in mecca is not ISLAMIC at all...the attires they wear the shaving of facial hair, the pradakshina and mainly the brken shiva lingam are just dead giveaway...You have completely disregarded my post on sayur ul okul in which the poet glorifies Mahadeva /Siva...btw Siva wears a crescent moon too on his forehead...the proofs are very strong that preislamic arabia is nothing but shaivism if not why an arabic poet glorifies Siva?....you can live in denial for all your life about it but it does not change that kaaba is a siva temple...Alllah is nothing but Mahadeva for them and it is also ak nown fact that muhammad destroyed many idols to establish his new faith

 

[firedragon]

god is formless means he is not nirvikara but he is beyond all forms and is in each form.

I dont care where that comes from if it is Nagesh oak or someone, but the stuff he/she put out is astounding. It is clear that mecca follows pre-islamic vedic tradition and the stuff that goes on in mecca is not ISLAMIC at all...the attires they wear the shaving of facial hair, the pradakshina and mainly the brken shiva lingam are just dead giveaway...You have completely disregarded my post on sayur ul okul in which the poet glorifies Mahadeva /Siva...btw Siva wears a crescent moon too on his forehead...the proofs are very strong that preislamic arabia is nothing but shaivism if not why an arabic poet glorifies Siva?....you can live in denial for all your life about it but it does not change that kaaba is a siva temple...Alllah is nothing but Mahadeva for them and it is also ak nown fact that muhammad destroyed many idols to establish his new faith

Let me ask you a question. Did Abraham worship the God Shiva?

Islam existed before him, according to scripture.