Jesus is not God

[YoursTrue]

wrong, Jesus has the fullness of God indwelling him.

Well, how do you understand Exodus 7:1 where God told Moses He would make him a god (or as God) to Pharaoh? Depending on translation. Are you familiar with that scripture?
King James Bible
And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet."

New King James Version
So the LORD said to Moses: “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet."

 

[JerryMyers]

We went through this before.

Jesus was not awarded any worldly secular honors so he is not a Lord in the secular sense. This leaves Lord in the spiritual sense, and we only have only one spiritual Lord.

You give no basis for your two Lord theory.

Yes, we went through this before, and you still ‘spit’ nonsense.

I have told you many times there is one LORD God, and there are many ‘L/lords’ which apply to human kings, men of authority. For example, in 1 Samuel 24:8, David refers to Saul as ‘my L/lord’. Which part you cannot understand??

So after Jesus appears to him, after Thomas thinks he's a ghost, after Jesus denies he's a ghost, and after Thomas places his hands on him to feel Jesus's wounds, your theory is that that this somehow VERIFIED Thomas's initial DISBELIEF???

Obviously you have obtained a deep misunderstanding of the scriptural account and need much more than a good book on the Trinity.

Obviously you have misread your scripture. Where in the scripture did it tell us Thomas thinks Jesus is a ghost??

And don’t talk to me about a ‘good’ book on the trinity if you cannot show me Jesus preached the trinity in his lifetime on earth from the scripture. Let me say it again, the trinity is a man-made doctrine and that’s why Jesus NEVER preached the trinity.

Thomas went from a state of disbelief to belief, not from disbelief to MORE disbelief @JerryMyers. Please read this biblical account again. You'll notice Thomas's statement of "My Lord and my God" comes AFTER his examination of Jesus, not before.

In fact, Jesus CONFIRMS that Thomas went from disbelief to belief:

27Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28 Thomas replied, "My Lord and my God!" 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20
Your theory that this is somehow a statement of disbelief by Thomas is unsupported and refuted by scripture.

Stop putting your bias ‘spin’ into the scripture.

First of all, Thomas NEVER called Jesus his God. As a matter of fact, NONE of the disciples believed Jesus was God or called Jesus their God.
When Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene and Mary realized the man standing in front of her was Jesus, what did Mary cry out? She cried out “Rabboni!” meaning ‘Teacher’ NOT God (John 20:16). When Jesus appeared to his other disciples (John 20:19-23), did any of the disciples act or say anything that could have implied they believed Jesus was their God?? None, zilch, nada, keiner.
Common sense and logic will tell you if none of the disciples took Jesus as their God, then Thomas too could not be taking Jesus as his God, which means Thomas “My Lord and my God!” was Thomas reacting in shock and disbelief to see Jesus alive and unharmed.

The exclamation mark(!) tells us it’s a reaction of shock and disbelief. In writings, you don’t address or acknowledge God with an exclamation mark!!
You are not going to find the phrase ‘my God!’ (with an exclamation mark) anywhere in the whole Bible EXCEPT in John 20:28. Why? Because John 20:28 is a reaction of shock and disbelief, it’s NOT a confirmation Jesus is God.

 

[JerryMyers]

Okay, but remember, you've already defined "God Almighty" as the Father only.

Yes, Jesus is NOT the God Almighty, unless you think Jesus is a whacko who thinks he is his own father and prayed to himself.

I am afraid scripture disagrees with you.

You have already told us the Father never left, but scripture tells us that the "one coming" is the ALPHA and OMEGA.

You apparently MISSED this even though @learner Daniel was kind enough to post it in rather large letters for all to see. Here, let me post it again:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega (the Beginning and the End); the One who was, the One who is, and the One coming; the Almighty” (Rev 1:7-8)

I am afraid you are reading the scripture with a preconceived mind that Jesus is God when he’s NOT!

I have told learner Daniel, and I will tell you too, in Rev. 1:8 it was the Lord God talking, NOT Jesus. It’s clearly stated in Rev. 1:8 – “saith the Lord God”.

Also, earlier you can see in Rev. 1:4-5, you can see a clear distinction between the Lord God and Jesus that only those who refuse to accept the truth will miss it –

“………. Grace and peace to you from Him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, AND from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness ……”.

There are 2 distinct beings here – one, the Lord God who is the present, the past (who was), and the future (who is to come), and two, Jesus Christ who is the faithful witness.

Discard your bias, and the truth will set you free.

Since you state the Father never left, that leaves Jesus as the one "who comes", unless you have another Almighty God in mind.

The issue of whether Jesus is God is resolved as Yes, whereas the OP's claim that Jesus is not God is unsubstantiated and unproven.

What ‘another Almighty God’ nonsense are you talking??

I have said many times the One and Only God Almighty is always here, NEVER left to be coming back, so, yes, Jesus is the one coming back, and he will come back the same as he left – a man, NOT God (never is, never was)!

 

[JerryMyers]

Well this is easy, since by your own stated standard, we see the same reference to Jesus.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever (Hebrews 13:8)

Jesus, ad the Son of God does not change. It is only as the Son of Man that Jesus changed. If Jesus were merely man, Hebrews 13:8 would not apply.

Why not?? Only your preconceived mindset said Hebrews 13:8 would not apply if Jesus was a man.
The truth is Jesus is a man, he will always be a man/son of man, a prophet of God who only spoke the Words of God yesterday, today, and forever.

Jesus referred to himself as 'the son of man' about 88 times in the scripture.
How many times in the scripture did Jesus refer to himself as S/son of God? Hardly! What does that tell you??

Not quite. An MMA champion making empty boasts cannot be compared to either the Son of God or the Son of Man.

When did I ever compare Jesus with an MMA champion???
Try to focus on what you read. No wonder you hardly understand your scripture and talk nonsense.

 

[JerryMyers]

Did you really read the verses I posted? Even the ones on Blasphemy and stoning?

Of course, I read them.

So you believe Jesus committed blasphemy??!
Or do you believe Jesus claimed he’s God but did not commit blasphemy?? Can you show me where in the scripture Jesus claimed he’s God??

 

[JerryMyers]

John 8 and 10 or did you miss the times where the Jewish People were going to stone him for claiming to be God?

Matthew 26:65
Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

Mark 14:64
Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

John 10:33
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

John 8
54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

55 Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying.

56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

You want to explain how Jesus 'claimed' to be God in those passages you quoted???

 

[JerryMyers]

Ah, it is an exclamation of belief. View attachment 99935View attachment 99936View attachment 99937View attachment 99938

Exactly how I feel when reading your posts!!

 

[JerryMyers]

View attachment 99939

You want to explain this??? Or you are just good at 'copy and paste'???

 

[Oeste]

Yes, we went through this before, and you still ‘spit’ nonsense.

I have told you many times there is one LORD God,

If you actually believed this, then you would know Jesus is Lord.

We have ONE spiritual LORD, @JerryMyers, not many LORDS.

No matter which way you spell or obfuscate it, Jesus is Lord.

and there are many ‘L/lords’ which apply to human kings, men of authority. For example, in 1 Samuel 24:8, David refers to Saul as ‘my L/lord’. Which part you cannot understand??

When did human kings become our spiritual LORD?

And why do you constantly attempt to conflate or confuse the two?

Yes, there are secular lords of authority, but these are earthly, not spiritual sources. Jesus is Lord, but his authority did not arise from any secular province or domain. Jesus is Lord because our God is Lord, and our Lord is one just as our God is one.

He is our Lord God. This is not rocket science, and there is no need to pretend it is.

Let me say it again, the trinity is a man-made doctrine

Yes, you've said this many times but it comes replete with many misrepresentations about the trinity.

This thread is a declaration that Jesus is not God. So we don't have to talk about the trinity. We can simply discuss whether the OP is true or false.

We are now 125 pages in on this thread, and while we have shown, time and time again, that Jesus is God, you have shown no evidence that Jesus is not God. All you've managed to show is that Jesus is a man, something Christians, world wide, ALREADY AGREE ON!

Do you understand the evidence to show "Jesus is NOT God" will be DIFFERENT than the evidence needed to show "Jesus is Man" ???

First of all, Thomas NEVER called Jesus his God

Well let me stop you there.

Thomas clearly called Jesus his Lord and God.

Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” John 27-28

So once again, we have evidence that Jesus is God, and are provided no evidence that he is not. Do you have evidence Jesus is man? Well so do I. What I'm looking for is evidence Jesus is not God.

Stop putting your bias ‘spin’ into the scripture.

What spin?

Again you claim this or that, but you evidence neither. You just claimed Thomas never called Jesus his God when scripture clearly shows he did.

THOMAS ANSWERED JESUS directly, JerryMyers. He didn't mumble to himself under his breath, nor is there any indication he suddenly looked up at the sky as if to speak to the Father. THAT WOULD BE EVIDENCE.

But unfortunately for you, Thomas addresses Jesus, and directs "My Lord and my God" to him.

Your arguments are opinions, nothing more. It's okay to have opinions. You have yours and I have mine. We all have opinions. But is you want to show "Jesus is not God", you will need to come to the table with a lot more than your opinion and a presupposition that our scripture is mixed with truth and lies.

The exclamation mark(!) tells us it’s a reaction of shock and disbelief. In writings, you don’t address or acknowledge God with an exclamation mark!!

There are no exclamation marks in Koine Greek @JerryMyers. Your argument is baseless, structured on supposed evidence that simply isn't there. Try reading it without the translator marks. What does John 20:28 tell you now?

Why? Because John 20:28 is a reaction of shock and disbelief, it’s NOT a confirmation Jesus is God.

There is no "disbelief" in Thomas at John 20:28. By this time, Thomas has seen Jesus and all disbelief from him is gone.

Again, your claim is refuted by scripture.

I have told learner Daniel, and I will tell you too, in Rev. 1:8 it was the Lord God talking, NOT Jesus. It’s clearly stated in Rev. 1:8 – “saith the Lord God”.

You are making your presupposed assumption again. He is "the one who is coming", and the one who is coming is the Almighty. The Lord God here is Jesus.

I have said many times the One and Only God Almighty is always here, NEVER left

We all agree that the Father has never left us.

What you fail to realize is that the Almighty is COMING, and He can't be COMING if He NEVER left.

Also, earlier you can see in Rev. 1:4-5, you can see a clear distinction between the Lord God and Jesus that only those who refuse to accept the truth will miss it –

The "distinction" you see is the dual nature of Christ. He is not only the Son of Man, but the Son of God.

(Rev 1:7-8) “I am the Alpha and the Omega (the Beginning and the End); the One who was, the One who is, and the One coming; the Almighty”​

​

Who is the one coming?​

​

Revelation 22:20: "He who testifies to these things says, 'Surely I am coming soon.' Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!"​

The FATHER IS NEVER THE "ONE COMING". THE ONE COMING IS OUR CREATOR, THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA, THE ALMIGHTY.

You can shutter your eyes, hold to your preconception, and pretend not to see, or you can open them and simply read scripture, which clearly shows the dual nature of Jesus: fully God and fully man.

When you can present some evidence that Jesus is not God, something that exceeds the bounds of mere opinion, let the readers know. I am sure many would love to see it.

 

[YoursTrue]

So what do you think it means when God told Moses he would be a God or like God before Pharaoh? So far no answers...

 

[learner Daniel]

Well, how do you understand Exodus 7:1 where God told Moses He would make him a god (or as God) to Pharaoh? Depending on translation. Are you familiar with that scripture?
King James Bible
And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet."

New King James Version
So the LORD said to Moses: “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet."

I understand that being like God in authority to him.

 

[learner Daniel]

Yes, we went through this before, and you still ‘spit’ nonsense.

I have told you many times there is one LORD God, and there are many ‘L/lords’ which apply to human kings, men of authority. For example, in 1 Samuel 24:8, David refers to Saul as ‘my L/lord’. Which part you cannot understand??

Obviously you have misread your scripture. Where in the scripture did it tell us Thomas thinks Jesus is a ghost??

And don’t talk to me about a ‘good’ book on the trinity if you cannot show me Jesus preached the trinity in his lifetime on earth from the scripture. Let me say it again, the trinity is a man-made doctrine and that’s why Jesus NEVER preached the trinity.

Stop putting your bias ‘spin’ into the scripture.

First of all, Thomas NEVER called Jesus his God. As a matter of fact, NONE of the disciples believed Jesus was God or called Jesus their God.
When Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene and Mary realized the man standing in front of her was Jesus, what did Mary cry out? She cried out “Rabboni!” meaning ‘Teacher’ NOT God (John 20:16). When Jesus appeared to his other disciples (John 20:19-23), did any of the disciples act or say anything that could have implied they believed Jesus was their God?? None, zilch, nada, keiner.
Common sense and logic will tell you if none of the disciples took Jesus as their God, then Thomas too could not be taking Jesus as his God, which means Thomas “My Lord and my God!” was Thomas reacting in shock and disbelief to see Jesus alive and unharmed.

The exclamation mark(!) tells us it’s a reaction of shock and disbelief. In writings, you don’t address or acknowledge God with an exclamation mark!!
You are not going to find the phrase ‘my God!’ (with an exclamation mark) anywhere in the whole Bible EXCEPT in John 20:28. Why? Because John 20:28 is a reaction of shock and disbelief, it’s NOT a confirmation Jesus is God.

Someone claimed that Jesus was only resurrected as a ghost, spirit. He was responding to that.

 

[learner Daniel]

start at

• #2,484

wife is kicking me off

Chow all

 

[YoursTrue]

I understand that being like God in authority to him.

What do you mean by that? That sentence doesn't make much sense so please try to explain. In authority to who? Was Moses made by God to be a God to Pharaoh? Exodus 7:1.
King James Bible
"And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet."
So God made Moses a God to Pharaoh. I think I understand your statement. God made Moses to be over Pharaoh?