Jesus is not God

[Soapy]

Why did you stop at verse 14 and did not continue to include verse 18 ? - John 1:18
Doesn't it say that No man has seen God at any time ________
People saw Jesus. Saw Jesus and lived - please see Exodus 33:20; 1st John 4:12; John 6:46

Plus, according to Psalm 90:2 God has No beginning. Meaning God was ' before ' any beginning
Whereas, pre-human heavenly Jesus was "IN" the beginning but never ' before' the beginning as his God was
Plus, the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Revelation 3:12

Plus, according to Psalm 90:2 God has No beginning. Meaning God was ' before ' any beginning

Really, and truly, ‘No beginning’ cannot mean ’Before’, since there cannot be a ‘Before’ a ‘No Beginning’.

 

[Andrew Stephen]

Peace to all,

"Yes… THE FATHER created His Angels and ALL THINGS and then HUMANITY… Humanity IN HIS IMAGE and tested each and everyone as to conformity to HIS standards…".

"It was 30 years later when the Father said to Jesus: ‘Thou art my Son in whom I am well pleased’ (quoted from Isaiah 42:1) and then the Father BAPTISTED (ANOINTED) JESUS WITH THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH so then Jesus BECAME ‘CHRIST’… Jesus Christ!" Saopy

To me in logic and faith The Christ is the Mind of God and the Holy Spirit Person in being conceived in the Person of Jesus and God becoming the immortal flesh Baptized with the Spirit of Truth through death for resurrection from the Power of The Incorruptible Holy Spirit being through the immortal flesh of the Christ becoming again in all mankind.

To me on earth all mankind is created from the corrupt spirit through the mortal and failed flesh for the souls of all, we become the image of The Christ, through the Body of Mary from the incorruptible "Holy" spirit through the immortal flesh of The New Eve through The Christ, in the Person of The Son, Jesus, becoming again in all mankind into the image of The Creator and God for The Father.

equilibrate
: to bring into or keep in equilibrium : balance. intransitive verb. : to bring about, come to, or be in equilibrium.

To me in logic and through rationale and from the Faith of Abraham we are created and become immortal and incorruptible and we become again reimaged glorified and transfigured together to the Will of Creation.

Rationally and logically and through the faith of Abraham Jesus is the Person of the Trinity and transformer of all mankind into immortality and incorruption from creation conceived by the existing Person of the Holy Spirit through the New Eve for the Christ, the Mind of God and the Holy Spirit Person in being manifesting through the flesh of Jesus becoming the Christ in all mankind becoming again.

To me, logic and rationale follow, We are created from The Powers of Creation from The Father transformed through the powers of transformation through the Son and glorified by the Powers of the Holy Spirit Transfigured becoming again the image of The Creator and God for the Father.

Pope Francis described what is happening in Ukraine and Palestine as “two failures” of humanity today where the “arrogance of the invader prevails over dialogue.”

To me, the logic follows before creation as, The Word is the authority of all spirit and life and exists before creation was ever created was even created. "And the Word becomes Flesh". The Christ becomes from the Mind of God conceived in all mankind in the flesh, the Body of The Christ becoming the transformed immortal and incorruptible shared Will of Creation in the flesh of all mankind as The Christ in all mankind shared in the infallible and eternal intelligence of creation as the Person of The Holy Spirit and the Will of Creation in the flesh of all mankind born again and saved in the Christ becoming again glorified and transfigured into the image of the One Creator and One God for The One Father.

Peace always,
Stephen

 

[Feedmysheep]

Mark 14:62 - "I am,” said Jesus. “And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.” So Jesus would be sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One. There's the Mighty One and there's Jesus who is sitting at the Mighty One's right hand. Two. Not three.

While this is true about Jesus seen at the right hand of God it is only one side of the revelation.
It is rather objective and the experience of the three-oneness of God is experiential and subjective.

For example Jesus says He and His Father, as a divine "We" will come and make an abode with His lovers.
Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him. (John 14:23)

The human being within whom the Father and the Son as the Spirit have come to live within them can detect no seperation.
This is the corporate experience of Christians. Though the Son and the Father come as the Spirit to be "We" abiding in us, we cannot
detect any seperation.

Notice how Paul uses these titles in a seamless and interchangeable way about God indwelling the Christians.

But you are not in the flesh, but in the spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him. But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is life because of righteousness.
And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you. (Romans 8:9-11)

The Spirit of God indwells them.
Yet the Spirit of God is the same as the Spirit of Christ who indwells them.
Yet the Spirit of Christ is the same as Christ Himself who indwells them.
Yet Christ Himself is the same as the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead who indwells them.

The Spirit of God equals the Spirit of Christ equals Christ equals the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead.
Some of us have to consider this subjective indwelling of God along with the vision of Jesus sitting at the right hand of power or the right hand of God.

 

[Feedmysheep]

Plus, according to Psalm 90:2 God has No beginning. Meaning God was ' before ' any beginning

The limitation of human language and the human to capture eternity is evident.
The high and lofty one inhabits eternity.
For thus says the high and exalted One, / Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: / I will dwell in the high and holy place, (Isa. 57:15a)

As long as God was (eternally) the Word who was with God and WAS God is the same - without beginning and eternal.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)

Let's come back to both Isaiah 57:51 to complete it.
And lets return to Psalm 90.
Both are a window into the eternal purpose of God to dispense Himself into man.

First - For thus says the high and exalted One, / Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: / I will dwell in the high and holy place, / And with the contrite and lowly of spirit, / To revive the spirit of the lowly / And to revive the heart of the contrite. (Isa. 57:15 complete)
Though God the uncreated and eternal life inhabits eternity His desire is to also inhabit the man with a contrite and lowly spirit.
That man is Jesus Christ the perfect man that God became in His incarnation.

Second - O Lord, You have been our dwelling place / In all generations.
Before the mountains were brought forth, / And before You gave birth to the earth and the world,
/ Indeed from eternity to eternity, You are God. (Psa. 90:1,2)
Moses has the realization that the turning into dust of man is abnormal somehow. This leaves man homeless.
Intuitively Moses perseves that man TRUE home is in God Himself the eternal before all the creation of the world, its mountains and so forth.

Third - Thus says Jehovah, / Heaven is My throne, / And the earth the footstool for My feet. / Where then is the house that you will build for Me, / And where is the place of My rest?
For all these things My hand has made, / And so all these things have come into being, declares Jehovah. / But to this kind of man will I look, to him who is poor / And of a contrite spirit, and who trembles at My word. (Isa. 66:1,2)

Not only man intuitively senses that God is his true home God also from His side looks to dwell in man.
He is not satisfied even to dwell only in heaven which is His throne.
He is not satisfied even to have the earth as His footstool or any other of the billions of items He created.

He looks longingly to have His house not in a splendid stone building temple. But ultimately to dwell in man as His house He looks.
That is He looks to a certain kind of man with a contrite spirit and is not rich in themselves but humble and trembling at God's authority.
This kind of man He became in the incarnation of Jesus Christ the Son of God. And here the eternal God starts His eternal plan to
indwell man as His true house.

God the eternal became a man. This man though a perfect man put aside His perfection, denied Himself, and became obedient unto
death. And that the death of a cross. THEREFORE God has highly exalted Him with a name above every name not only in this age but in that which is to come and for eternity.

This man who is God incarnate died and rose accomplishing redemption. For this He came forth from eternity. (Micah
(But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, / So little to be among the thousands of Judah, / From you there will come forth to Me / He who is to be Ruler in Israel; / And His goings forth are from ancient times, / From the days of eternity.) (Micah 5:3)

This man was the one grain that fell into the ground to die. And in dying the divine uncreated life concealed in the shell of His humanity
was released. And He died breaking open that shell to reproduce many grains like Him. This is His reproduction as the Body of Christ.
This is His dying and rising for a mass duplication of Himself as the standard model. That is many sons of God.

Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit. (John 12:24)

It is impssible to utter this eternal plan of God in eternity let alone in one measily little Internet post.
But it is so that God became man so that He might cause man to become God in life, nature, expression, function yet not in His Godhead.

What? You did not read how the many grains eventually are conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God?
In the eyes of the One who inhabits eternity it all has already taken place. Thus all the verbs are in the past tense from God's
perspective - called, foreknew, predestinated, conformed, justified, glorified.

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers;

And those whom He predestinated, these He also called; and those whom He called, these He also justified; and those whom He justified, these He also glorified. (Rom. 8:28-30)

Whereas, pre-human heavenly Jesus was "IN" the beginning but never ' before' the beginning as his God was
Plus, the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Revelation 3:12

The Scripture doesn't really say Jesus was in the beginning.
It says the Logos, the Word was in the beginning and was both with God and WAS God.
That Word became flesh and thus Jesus came about. Jesus is God incarnate and expresses, declares, defines the uncreated divine eternal Person.

Please elaborate on your point in using Revelation 3:10. How is this being used to demonstrate Christ is not God become a man?

He who overcomes, him I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall by no means go out anymore, and I will write upon him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which descends out of heaven from My God, and My new name.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Time is created, God is not. Space is created, God is not. To have "In" you need space, to have a "beginning" you need time. Both are necessary for us as created beings, but neither are necessary for God.
God is eternal, before time, space, matter or any created thing. There is no time or space where God was not.
Then scripture lies, and there was never a "Beginning" for God to create anything. It also means time and space are uncreated, which is a viewpoint I do not believe the WT espouses.
Jerusalem descends, but that is another topic.
Good points to raise, but I gotta go!

Thank you for your reply, and 'yes' God is eternal (Psalm 90:2) God had No beginning
Jesus believed his God is The Creator - Rev. 4:11
What was God's (The Creator) first creation______ God did Not have to create angelic spirit sons (Job 38:4-7) then physical life
Apparently because Jehovah loves life He wanted to share that love by besides being God but also be The Creator
That to me is why pre-human heavenly Jesus was 'in' the beginning (of God's creation) and Not 'before' God created him

Yes, well after Pentecost, then Jerusalem would descend - Not fleshly-national Jerusalem but Jerusalem 'above' - Gal. 4:26; Rev. 3:12
Jerusalem above is heavenly Jerusalem or the heavenly seat of government with Jesus as King of God's Kingdom - 1st Cor. 15:24-26

- www.jw.org

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Really, and truly, ‘No beginning’ cannot mean ’Before’, since there cannot be a ‘Before’ a ‘No Beginning’.

There can be a 'before' the beginning of creation
In other words, before Un-created God created anything (Job 38:4-7) starting with angelic spirit life there was only God
Since God "IS" Love, then God wanted to share His love of life by Not only being God but The Creator
I find Jesus believed his God is The Creator at Rev. 4:11

 

[URAVIP2ME]

..... KJV says: and the word was God at John 1, but at Acts 28:6 B KJV inserts the letter 'a' before god
God/god is a title and God is divine but Not a proper name
Continuing to John 1:18 No one has seen God (people saw Jesus) - Exodus 33:20; 1st John 4:12 and John 6:46

 

[Oeste]

Let me ask you a simple question – since it’s obvious a frog, a dog, and a man have to physically beget their respective other half to produce their respective kind, do you, really believe that God Almighty had to physically beget Mary to get the virgin Mary pregnant with Jesus??

I showed you the video, but to answer your question directly, God does not physically beget Mary and I am not sure how this would make her "pregnant with Jesus" if He did.

Jesus is Christ incarnate and Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, not Mary. Mary is neither the begotten son of frog, son of dog, Son of Man, or Son of God.

Still at your ‘simple thought experiment’ nonsense??? I thought you had moved on from this.

It's apparent some still struggle with the term "begotten". I am glad we stayed on it.

There’s nothing in that video to suggest God physically impregnated Mary.

Thus my belief there is no suggestion He did so.

So, I don’t know from where you get this ‘Mary was physically impregnated by God’ view.

Strawman!

I've never espoused such a view.

I don’t think mainstream Christianity shares your views either.

I think you're confusing my views with someone else, perhaps the poster blu:

​

The Jesus of Matthew and the Jesus of Luke are both begotten by the divine insemination of a virgin​

You'll notice that at no time did I endorse his view:

Insemination requires semen, and I see no indication semen needed to be involved in the birth of Jesus. Joseph would require semen to impregnate Mary, God would not.​

Which means your assertion I had is blatantly inaccurate and incorrect.

The doctrine commandment of men will ALWAYS BE the commandment of men whether you believe the NT is God-breathed scripture or not.

If the commandment is God breathed, then it is by God. If it is Man breathed, then it is by man. As I mentioned a few weeks ago, this arrangement, where God speaks through His prophets, is an arrangement we insisted upon.

Jesus himself, as narrated in the NT, said “In vain they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men" which made it crystal clear that worshiping him (Jesus) as God IS a doctrine commandment of men and that’s exactly what you are preaching – the doctrine commandment of men!!

Incorrect. Please remember the "context" when you "proof-text".

At Mat 15:1 we learn Jesus, the Son of Man, is talking to the Pharisees. They came to confront him about the law:

Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”​

​

There is absolutely nothing here to suggest Jesus was scolding the Pharisees for worshiping him, or that the Pharisees had any "man made doctrines" or inclinations to do so.

Your charge Jesus is rebuking a Pharisaic tradition of worshiping him is unsubstantiated and without merit. A simple reading of the text will show that no such relationship had ever existed between Jesus and the Pharisees, and no such teaching can be reasonably inferred from a reading of Matthew 15 1-20.

However, Jesus is correct when he says the Pharisees "...worship me in vain". As the Son of Man, Jesus receives no honor from the Pharisees. As the Son of God, the Pharisees vainly seek to worship him.

John 8:19: “You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also”. Obviously, you cannot worship someone you do not know.​

​

John 14:6-7: " Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would know my Father as well. From now on you do know Him and have seen Him."​

No man has seen the Father, but Christ sees the Father, and to know Christ is to see the Father. Christ is our intermediary. In a dispute between chickens and a goats, the goat will cry foul if you elect a chicken, and the chickens will nay any goat as intermediary. Each will be biased to his own kind.

Christ serves as our intermediary precisely because he is both man and God. Not half but fully each.