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Jesus is not God

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
That was THOMAS’ misconception. It wasn’t scriptural.
Point of fact, none of the other ten disciples agreed with Thomas by virtue of the fact that none of them exclaimed the same claim.
In addition, Jesus TOLD Thomas, ‘Touch me and see that I am not a Spirit’…. GOD IS SPIRIT.
Jesus told Thomas that he, Jesus, is FLESH AND BONE… Man is Flesh and Bone.
After God resurrected Jesus back to his pre-human ' spirit ' body - 1st Peter 3:18 B - Jesus alive in a spirit body
Before Jesus ascended to heaven Jesus used materialized bodies to appear to his followers
John 20:17 is before Jesus ascended, and ' flesh...' ( physical can Not inherit the kingdom - 1st Cor. 15:50 )
Plus, a physical body can Not appear in a closed shut room - John 20:19, 26
Notice what Jesus already says at verse 17 before doubting Thomas' words at verse 28
Even on the NEWS we hear people exclaim , " Oh my God ! " in front of a reporter and we know the reporter is Not God.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Many, many places in the Bible reveal that.
Would you prefer evidence from the Old Testament or the New?
Okay, there are so many places. But I will submit one noteble one - the Word who was God became flesh.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only Begotten from the Father), full of grace and reality. (John 1:1,14)

..........................................................................................................................................................................................
Why did you stop at verse 14 and did not continue to include verse 18 ? - John 1:18
Doesn't it say that No man has seen God at any time ________
People saw Jesus. Saw Jesus and lived - please see Exodus 33:20; 1st John 4:12; John 6:46

Plus, according to Psalm 90:2 God has No beginning. Meaning God was ' before ' any beginning
Whereas, pre-human heavenly Jesus was "IN" the beginning but never ' before' the beginning as his God was
Plus, the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Revelation 3:12
 

JerryMyers

Active Member
It appears it does since the words "God Jesus Christ" is clearly on the Mosaic. Whether anyone believes "Jesus is God" is up to the individual.
Let me say it again - The authenticated Meggido Mosaic with its inscription does not tell us Jesus is God.

In other words, the inscription “God Jesus” on the mosaic is NOT an affirmation Jesus is God, but it’s an affirmation that in the 3rd Century, there are group of people who believed Jesus is God.

If you are a highly respected man of authority living in the 3rd Century, you can have anything on the mosaic, you can even inscribe “God Oeste” on the mosaic if you want to, but that is NOT an affirmation Oeste is God, it’s just an affirmation that a man named Oeste, living in the 3rd Century believed he is God.
Neither "Trinity" or "Jesus is God" is a 4th century construct ordained by Constantine at Nicaea as some posters have postulate on this forum.
Well, the fact is a doctrine commandment of men does NOT and will NOT make Jesus, or anyone for that matter, God.
Certainly idol worship predates Christianity, but I see no connection with the Meggido Mosaic. Nothing suggests this early Christian church was worshiping idols All that was found were the inscriptions and table where the emblems were performed, and a mural of two fish in the center that symbolized Christian faith at the time. No images of animals or humans, and neither the mosaic, table or inscriptions can be considered idols.
Where did you get the notion I was saying the early Christian church was worshiping idols??
I am saying a 3rd Century inscription on a mosaic is NOT an affirmation Jesus is God just because the mosaic predates the 4th Century Nicaea Council, and likewise, idols-worshipping is NOT an affirmation idols are Gods just because idols-worshipping predates Christianity. Comprende??

So, other than you, nobody here is implying or suggesting the early Christian church was worshiping idols.
 

JerryMyers

Active Member
Question 1: Logical Deduction

Here is a simple thought experiment about the nature of begotten things which I've presented previously.

The only begotten Son of Frog is Frog.
The only begotten Son of Dog is Dog.
The only begotten Son of Man is Man.
The only begotten Son of God is ___________?
Still at your ‘simple thought experiment’ nonsense??? I thought you had moved on from this.

Let me ask you a simple question – since it’s obvious a frog, a dog, and a man have to physically beget their respective other half to produce their respective kind, do you, really believe that God Almighty had to physically beget Mary to get the virgin Mary pregnant with Jesus??

 

Feedmysheep

Member
Why did you stop at verse 14 and did not continue to include verse 18 ? - John 1:18
I tend to be verbose and have to exercise myself to be concise.
Now I'll look at your point about after verse 14.
Doesn't it say that No man has seen God at any time ________
Yes.
And now it is YOUR turn to continue.
No one has ever seen God; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

This was was a very bold thing for John to write under divine inspiration. Surely, John knew of instances of
people seeing God in the Hebrew Bible. Now John says we must forget about those seeings of God.
They are ALL superseded by the manifestation of God through the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.

Seeing God is seeing Jesus walk, eat, sleep, talk, work, be crucified, rise from the dead, ascend to Heaven again.
This seeing of the life of the Jesus transcends, supercedes all the seeings of God recorded in the Old Testament.


In his letter John continues that truth.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we beheld and our hands handled, concerning the Word of life
(And the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and report to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us);
That which we have seen and heard we report also to you that you also may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. (1 John 1:1-3)

The uncreated divine Eternal life - the eternal Person is manifested in the total life of the man Jesus - the God-man Jesus.
People saw Jesus. Saw Jesus and lived - please see Exodus 33:20; 1st John 4:12; John 6:46
I appreciate any passages you recommend to me.
If your point is that Jesus could not be God because men saw Him and lived, you underestimate the power, extent, and effectiveness of
of God's redemption.

You will notice that in the Old Testament this power of redemption ALLOWING men to see God and live is PRE-FIGURED in cases.
You should understand that Christ is the centrality and circumference of the whole Bible.
So the seeing and living of say Isaiah when he saw God is a precurser to God's redemption allowing us to approach the infinite holiness, glory,
and righteousness of God. For example -

Then I [Isaiah] said,
Woe is me, for I am finished! / For I am a man of unclean lips, / And in the midst of a people of unclean lips I dwell; / Yet my eyes have seen the King, Jehovah of hosts.

Then one of the seraphim flew to me with an ember in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with a pair of tongs.
And he touched my mouth with it and said,
Now that this has touched your lips, / Your iniquity is taken away, and your sin is purged. (Isa. 6:5-7)


The same with Jacob, the mother and father of Samson, the 70 elders who accompamied Moses to see God on Mt. Sinai.
You should now consider all these instances to foretell of Christ, Christ, Christ and His efficacious redemption.

Then we must go even further. His full salvation will save us to the uttermost. That is to match Him to be His collective
Bride and Wife- conformed to His image. We shall be like Him for we shall see Him even as He is.

Don't let me get too verbose. So much needs to be written about this.

Plus, according to Psalm 90:2 God has No beginning.
Yes. And the Word who was God became flesh. God the uncreated Creator took up the created man.
Man without contraversy is a created item. (Gen. 1:26)

So the God-man Jesus Christ is the Creator and the creature.

Do you know what the word "mingle" means? It means to combine two or more things
so that they remain distinguishable in the combination. In Jesus Christ we see the mingling of God and man.
We discern in Him both the uncreated Creator and the creature - the created human.

I will stop this post here. Your other point is not ignored.
 
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Feedmysheep

Member
Plus, according to Psalm 90:2 God has No beginning. Meaning God was ' before ' any beginning
Whereas, pre-human heavenly Jesus was "IN" the beginning but never ' before' the beginning as his God was
Plus, the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Revelation 3:12

The Ruler, the Messiah has His goings forth from the days of ETERNITY.
He is the uncreated self existing God who incarnated to be a man in Bethlehem.

(But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, / So little to be among the thousands of Judah, / From you there will come forth to Me / He who is to be Ruler in Israel; / And His goings forth are from ancient times, / From the days of eternity.) (Micah 5:2)

I'll speak to the other point perhaps latter.
 

Oeste

Well-Known Member
Well, the fact is a doctrine commandment of men does NOT and will NOT make Jesus, or anyone for that matter, God.
I consider the NT as God breathed scripture...that is, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, as promised and sent by Christ.
Still at your ‘simple thought experiment’ nonsense??? I thought you had moved on from this.
I find such 'nonsense' useful for logical deduction.

Let me ask you a simple question – since it’s obvious a frog, a dog, and a man have to physically beget their respective other half to produce their respective kind, do you, really believe that God Almighty had to physically beget Mary to get the virgin Mary pregnant with Jesus??
Simple question, but it has a long answer!

I have to sign off for awhile though, as I have a project that I have to be bright eyed and bushy tailed for tomorrow. I will be neither of course, but it will absorb a lot of my time, especially over the next two to three weeks, however I may get an opportunity to check in over the weekends.

You can find my views on how Mary was impregnated here:



If not, I'll be happy to answer any questions when I get back.

I would like to wish you and everyone else here a RF a safe and happy Thanksgiving. I know our JW friends don't celebrate it, so for them a blessed day.
Special thanks to @BrokenBread, @Feedmysheep, @learner Daniel and @Dimi95.:heart:
 
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