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Jesus is under subjection to God.

Sultan Of Swing

Well-Known Member
This is a fascinating concept. God has told me that time always exists. So the fact is that the begetting of Jesus is alwyas there as well. We have a tendency to think the past is gone but God sees it as ever present. We travel through time but God is in all time.

The Father becomes so simulataneously with the begetting of the Son before that He is just Jehovah.

If you are trying to say this means a pre-existing Jesus, you are in error. However the consciousness of God in Jesus is that of Himself. However the perspective is not from the beginning but from the incarnation.

I'm in error to believe in a pre-existing Jesus? Umm... before the world began, Jesus was with the Father. He said that Himself. And Jesus also prays to the Father to give Him the glory he had with Him before the world began. Let's not go labelling the entirety of orthodox Christianity in error here...
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The Father was before Jesus was. The Father is spirit while Jesus is the physical manifestation of God. God has MORE power then Jesus but yet Jesus is God but yet, only the physical part of God.

It's kinda like us, we are part of God and we are part of Jesus, but we are only a small part. We will never be greater then Jesus, nor God because they are our creators.

God is infinite, God's love is infinite. God loves Jesus and will love him for all eternity. Therefore Jesus and all those who follow Jesus will be alive forevermore after judgement.

Jesus is part of God but not all of God. God is the combination of everything that exist will exist and has existed and also that which does not exist.

God is infinite he has no boundaries, no limitations. Jesus is physical and does have boundaries and limitations placed on him by God.

Jesus is God, but only the physical manifestation of God. God is everything.

For proof re-read the scriptures I posted. If you don't believe them, you simply don't believe in the word of God nor Jesus which is the physical mirror image of the invisible God.

I believe this is not the case. Jehovah does not become the Father unti lHe has the Son.

I believe the first half is true but Jesus is the Spirit of God in the flesh.

I believe that is impossible since Jesus is God.

I believe God does not have a physical part.

I believe neither is true.

I believe this is only a perception. God is not divided into parts.

I believe this is not the case.

Jesus does have the limiting factor of the physical body and that is certainly subject to God's will.

I believe in the word of God but I just don't believe in misinterpretations.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I'm in error to believe in a pre-existing Jesus? Umm... before the world began, Jesus was with the Father. He said that Himself. And Jesus also prays to the Father to give Him the glory he had with Him before the world began. Let's not go labelling the entirety of orthodox Christianity in error here...

I believe this swows a lack of understanding. The Spirit of God is in Jesus and that Spirit was in the beginning. The physical body came into being when God created it in the womb of Mary.
 

Sultan Of Swing

Well-Known Member
I believe this swows a lack of understanding. The Spirit of God is in Jesus and that Spirit was in the beginning. The physical body came into being when God created it in the womb of Mary.

Ah, sorry if I didn't make myself clearer. I never said the physical body of Jesus pre-existed His stay on earth, I just meant that He as a person, or as you say His spirit, did. Although, I still see Jesus, God the Son, as distinct from God the Father.

Would you agree that Jesus' physical body, however, is still present now, after His resurrection in glorified form?
 

budha3

Member
Jesus is God. Therefore, God cannot be greater than Jesus. The Father can supersede the Son, but that's an entirely different thing.
God is greater than Jesus, because God in his essence is the "one and the many" Jesus was one person, God is one but also many, so there is no way that Jesus can possibly be God. If you had only one string holding up a large diamond, there's a possibility that the string can break. If there are many strings holding up the diamond, then the possibility of the diamond falling is greatly diminished. The Lord thy God is One
 

budha3

Member
The people on this forum should know that Jesus was not God, and that He was our connection to God/ Remember the scripture that says "I know where I "came from and where I'm going" Jesus remembered being with God before he was born. His teachings and His deeds were showing us the power and Love of God.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
God is greater than Jesus, because God in his essence is the "one and the many" Jesus was one person, God is one but also many, so there is no way that Jesus can possibly be God. If you had only one string holding up a large diamond, there's a possibility that the string can break. If there are many strings holding up the diamond, then the possibility of the diamond falling is greatly diminished. The Lord thy God is One
God is one God in three Persons.
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
“To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹaz write: These are the things that the Amena says, the faithful and true witness the beginning of the creation by God:
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, as good as offered up Isaac, and the man that had gladly received the promises attempted to offer up [his] only-begotten [son]
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
it would seam the scriptures disagree with you
We're not created by God? People aren't begotten of human parents? Genesis certainly states that human beings are creatures of God's creation. And people are being born all the time of human mothers. I don't know what you're reading, but it ain't the bible.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

what does firstborn mean ?
More importantly, what does "firstborn of all creation" mean? It's a poetic way of asserting that Jesus was begotten of God.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
All this implicated confusion! No wonder people get frustrated with it all! :confused:

It is no more complex than understanding that a powerful and eternal being (indescribable in human understanding) who, at one point in his infinite existence made a decision to become a creator....to share life with other beings. His reasons are not stated.

His first act was to beget a son, made in his image, form and likeness. This spirit son was "with" his Father "in the beginning" for unknown eons of time before other creation came into existence. Prov 8:22 , 30 tells us that Father and son worked as a team in creation, thus the expression in Gen 1:26 "Let "US" make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness".
Col 1:15, 16 also attests to the fact that all things came into existence through the agency of the son. John 1:2 also confirms this fact.
Rev 3:14 calls Jesus "the beginning of the creation by God." So in several scriptures, Jesus in his pre-human existence is clearly created. This is no way demeans him or detracts from his position as the "son of God".

It is not complicated unless you introduce the notion of a triune god with three equal parts, that makes all of that completely meaningless. o_O

Jesus calls his Father "the only true God" and then called himself "the one whom (his Father) sent forth" in John 17:3. If ever there was an opportunity to address the issue of his equality, it was in this prayer. Yet not once in all of scripture does Jesus claim any equality with his God and Father.

There is one Creator and one "only begotten son". This does not describe Jesus being born as a human but speaks of the son as the one and only direct creation of the Father. This makes him unique out of all other spirit creatures. All other things came into existence through the son.

Both in his pre, and post human existence, Jesus is and always was subservient to his Father.

In Rev 3:12 Jesus calls his Father "my God" four times in this one verse. This is after his return to heaven. So if Jesus was God, then he worships an equal part of himself....which is absolute nonsense.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Jesus is not infinite. He is the physical part of God the finite part of God, but he is not the invisible infinite part. Jesus is less then God. God is greater then Jesus, Jesus said this himself.

Some Biblical support.

Hebrews Chapter 1

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

John 14:28
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

1 Corinthians 15:14-28
And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

How true. God is greater than Jesus. IT's wonderful on how Jesus gives God his Father the glory in everything he does. But..... people will still say that God is not greater than Jesus just so that it fits their beliefs. So sad....
 
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