Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'

[Desert Snake]

Jewish Adonay ( Adhonai ) is: Sovereign Lord. That is Not the Tetragrammaton (YHWH)

It is used for JHVH. If you are saying that it could refer to someone else, then you are saying that it's usage in the Old Testament, is vague.

I personally do not believe that it is intended to be vague, hence in the Christian bible, JHVH, Jehovah is specific to set of name variants, that unless you can prove otherwise, 'Yahweh', transferred into the Christian Bible, isn't one of them.
You could use 'Yahweh', if you also are basically saying that other names used for JHVH, don't necessarily mean Jehovah, then you are de facto claiming that the Jewish /Judaism usage of the names, is wrong.

This is why if you say, that Adonay, is also used for Jesus, then the Judaism usage is wrong.

You are simply complicating cross language methodology, but if you want to do that, that is your prerogative.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I am wondering how people would get in touch with you without knowing your personal name.
If there is No name on your birth certificate what would people call you.
I find often the use of a name and a reputation go hand in hand.
I suppose that is why in Jesus' words God's name should be hallowed, held as sacred and used.
Jesus' preference was that he declared his Father's name according to John 17:6 ad John 17:26.

No. Thats like my father ceasing to be my father because he doesnt have a name. Are you still you even without your birth certificate? Or are you still you regardless of what people call you?

I mean, my last name is a family name. It defines me as part of a huge family. On the other hand, the name itself isnt holding us together. Its our relationship that does.

I would find it odd that you would define god by a name unless thats the only way you can relate to him? Most people here (US American) ask you your name for politeness. Last names are for business and first names are friends, family, and those we trust. Yet, a lot of us know that you can say our name and still dont Know us.

In Deaf culture, especially if youre part of it, you can get an idea of the person based on the type of name-sign they use and how they got it. Not so for hearing Americans. We're multigrained that to say Smith is a family name is very very broad.

There is a lot more to a name.

So calling the creator Yahweh, YHWH, God, father, logos, whatever (to me) its not as important as my relationship with him as a creator, privider, savior, and friend. The latter terms tells about the person. The former are labels that mean something to that given culture people Not just anyone who wishes to play around with continents.

When I used to hang around the Deaf community, I had a name sign. Although I had a name people can refer to me, the connection was far more than that. Like Yahweh,certain names are specific to the culture in which that language was and is spoken. I wasnt a part of their culture.

So, people knew me by traits and how I related to the Deaf community. Its the same with god. Can you imagine him saying he didnt know you because you spelled his name wrong or use it incorrectly?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What does spelling or even pronouncing a name differently ( each language has its own pronunciation ) matter.

 

[Desert Snake]

What does spelling or even pronouncing a name differently ( each language has its own pronunciation ) matter.

If you're reading the Bible with the specific names, it might matter because of how you are interpreting the text, religiously.

So, cross language wise, it can matter, because of how you're reading the text.
The issue here is that the Bible is in more than one language, basically.
So, yes, you can use 'Yahweh', but then you should really know when to use that name, imo.

 

[oldbadger]

Adonay is used for JHVH, in the OT, at various places. Adonai is the Greek spelling..

That's the trouble........ as soon as the story of Yeshua BarYosef was changed into other languages, the adjustments and deceptions began.
They even called Yeshua JESUS somewhere around the 16th century.
Do you honestly think that Yeshua ever heard the name JESUS?
His true person, mission, loves, etc are long lost to you.

So you say.

...not just me....... Christianity has reversed itself into other cultures and religions wherever it needed to.
Where I live the oldest churches and chapels here are sited on pagan meeting places.
Every feast and holy day that you have is based upon past pagan traditions and religions.


And to push the Trinity, which is what I presume you are doing, is going to be a tough job in a thread on a forum where opposing debaters don't get excluded......

 

[oldbadger]

I find in the King James version at Psalms 110 there are two (2) LORD / Lord's mentioned.
The LORD in all Upper-Case letters is where the Tetragrammaton stands for God's name.
The Lord in some lower-case letters stand for the Lord Jesus and the Tetragrammaton does Not appear.
So, the God of Lord Jesus is LORD God ( Tetragrammaton YHWH)

I don't think anybody wrote about Yeshua BarYosef in Psalms, although such verses may have been attributed to him later on.. Yeshua was a peasant of the second order, initially a handworker in bone, stone, wood and maybe in metal, working along the Capernaum shoreline, I expect. He wasn't a Lord.

 

[Desert Snake]

And to push the Trinity, which is what I presume you are doing, is going to be a tough job in a thread on a forum where opposing debaters don't get excluded......

Me? Different type of religion. It's a contextual argument, anyway.

 

[wizanda]

Fair enough, I acknowledge your belief about this.

I don't think anybody wrote about Yeshua BarYosef in Psalms

So you weren't listening properly; will try this again and with more detail:

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah
H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To physically see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

Moses, then David, and then Isaiah prophesied that the Lord (YHVH) would become our salvation, and this would be physically seen globally.

In my opinion.

 

[EtuMalku]

Yahweh is a north Arabian rain god who was worshiped by the Semitic tribes who lived near the Gulf of Aqaba. The worship of this god is believed to have originated with the Midianite, Hebrew, Moabite and Edomite tribes of southern Jordan and Palestine. To the Hebrew tribes of ancient Palestine, their deity Yahweh was a major tribal god and his cult became the religion of Judaism although his worship was common to many Semitic peoples. His sacred animal was the dove and to the Midianite and Edomite tribes, he considered to be the husband of the fertility goddess Ashira. The god was also known as Ea to the Babylonians, Yahu to the Aramaeans and Yah to the Egyptians.

 

[Phantasman]

In Genesis we learn about the fallen angels. ( All are created as free-will creation angelic or physical)
In Revelation we learn those fallen angels will never again inhabit heaven at Revelation 12:7-9,12
So, first the heavens were cleansed, then the earth will be cleansed.
There will be coming ' healing ' for earth's nations as described at Revelation 22:2.
That is why we are all invited to pray the invitation for Jesus to come !
Not pray to 'go' up to Jesus, Not pray to be 'taken away' to Jesus, but for 'Jesus to come', come and bring the benefit that all nations of earth will be healed.

That's orthodox catholic thought. No fallen angels (per Christ). If angels fell from heaven, how better will heaven be for you and me. Jesus clearly says Moses (who wrote Genesis) did not get his knowledge from heaven. (John 6:32).

The Holy Spirit told us to listen to Christ, not Moses. Luke 9:30-36 Matthew 17:1-9

 

[Desert Snake]

That's the trouble........ as soon as the story of Yeshua BarYosef was changed into other languages, the adjustments and deceptions began.

If you don't believe that His name is Jesus, you should probably stop calling Him Jesus.

 

[Desert Snake]

A description by Jesus to the disciple John after the crucifixion:

And I asked to know it, and he said to me, "The Monad is a monarchy with nothing above it. It is he who exists as God and Father of everything, the invisible One who is above everything, who exists as incorruption, which is in the pure light into which no eye can look.

"He is the invisible Spirit, of whom it is not right to think of him as a god, or something similar. For he is more than a god, since there is nothing above him, for no one lords it over him. For he does not exist in something inferior to him, since everything exists in him. For it is he who establishes himself. He is eternal, since he does not need anything. For he is total perfection. He did not lack anything, that he might be completed by it; rather he is always completely perfect in light. He is illimitable, since there is no one prior to him to set limits to him. He is unsearchable, since there exists no one prior to him to examine him. He is immeasurable, since there was no one prior to him to measure him. He is invisible, since no one saw him. He is eternal, since he exists eternally. He is ineffable, since no one was able to comprehend him to speak about him. He is unnameable, since there is no one prior to him to give him a name.

"He is immeasurable light, which is pure, holy (and) immaculate. He is ineffable, being perfect in incorruptibility. (He is) not in perfection, nor in blessedness, nor in divinity, but he is far superior. He is not corporeal nor is he incorporeal. He is neither large nor is he small. There is no way to say, 'What is his quantity?' or, 'What is his quality?', for no one can know him. He is not someone among (other) beings, rather he is far superior. Not that he is (simply) superior, but his essence does not partake in the aeons nor in time. For he who partakes in an aeon was prepared beforehand. Time was not apportioned to him, since he does not receive anything from another, for it would be received on loan. For he who precedes someone does not lack, that he may receive from him. For rather, it is the latter that looks expectantly at him in his light.

"For the perfection is majestic. He is pure, immeasurable mind. He is an aeon-giving aeon. He is life-giving life. He is a blessedness-giving blessed one. He is knowledge-giving knowledge. He is goodness-giving goodness. He is mercy and redemption-giving mercy. He is grace-giving grace, not because he possesses it, but because he gives the immeasurable, incomprehensible light.

"How am I to speak with you about him? His aeon is indestructible, at rest and existing in silence, reposing (and) being prior to everything. For he is the head of all the aeons, and it is he who gives them strength in his goodness. For we know not the ineffable things, and we do not understand what is immeasurable, except for him who came forth from him, namely (from) the Father. _Apocryphon of John

And this refutes the 'trinity'.... ?

 

[oldbadger]

If you don't believe that His name is Jesus, you should probably stop calling Him Jesus.

I don't........... he was Yeshua BarYosef, or very close to that..........

 

[oldbadger]

So you weren't listening properly; will try this again and with more detail:

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah
H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To physically see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

Moses, then David, and then Isaiah prophesied that the Lord (YHVH) would become our salvation, and this would be physically seen globally.

In my opinion.

I do acknowledge your belief about this.
But I don't believe that Yeshua BarYosef was this entity, don't believe that he was physically seen globally, don't believe that he was, would be or is our salvation.

It seems to me that he was initially a Galilean land-displaced peasant working along the Capernaum shoreline as a wood, bone, stone worker but that his abilities in various kinds of healing gave him the opportunity to lead a mission for the return of the old laws, discarded and ignored by a fat, greedy, corrupt, quisling, hellenised hypocritical priesthood.

But if you are right, that could cause me some difficulties later on.....

 

[Phantasman]

And this refutes the 'trinity'.... ?

Monarchy is one where all below derive. The son needs the Father, not the Father needs the son. Same with the Spirit.

The Monad is one, not three. Jesus claimed his Father was greater. The Spirit only speaks what it hears (of the Father).

Nothing is equal to the Father, as all exists within him and because of him. He is before the beginning, therefore before the son and the Spirit.

It's a choice of belief. Moses or Spirit (that spoke through Jesus as Christ).

 

[Desert Snake]

Monarchy is one where all below derive. The son needs the Father, not the Father needs the son. Same with the Spirit.

The Monad is one, not three. Jesus claimed his Father was greater. The Spirit only speaks what it hears (of the Father).

Nothing is equal to the Father, as all exists within him and because of him. He is before the beginning, therefore before the son and the Spirit.

It's a choice of belief. Moses or Spirit (that spoke through Jesus as Christ).

This is just your conjecture, that could be argued either way.
In other words, you don't believe Jesus to pre-exist incarnation, but would rather speculate that it is some form of shamanic trance, the only thing that makes sense to what you wrote.

That is problematic, in so many ways, one being that no wonder you can't use the accepted Scripture, because then your theology would be bizarre, at best.

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't........... he was Yeshua BarYosef, or very close to that..........

Actually, you don't really know. Yeshua could be a variation of another name, for all you know, with a similar, or double meaning.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Jesus never says to worship 'Yahweh'

This word is presumably translated as 'Lord'

In the English Bible, but with so many christians claiming that they should be worshipping 'Yahweh', or that they worship 'Yahweh', where does Jesus ever say to worship 'Yahweh '?

He said, for it is written, Thou shalt worship YHWH thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10 and Luke 4:8

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's the trouble........ as soon as the story of Yeshua BarYosef was changed into other languages, the adjustments and deceptions began.
They even called Yeshua JESUS somewhere around the 16th century.
Do you honestly think that Yeshua ever heard the name JESUS?
His true person, mission, loves, etc are long lost to you.


...not just me....... Christianity has reversed itself into other cultures and religions wherever it needed to.
Where I live the oldest churches and chapels here are sited on pagan meeting places.
Every feast and holy day that you have is based upon past pagan traditions and religions.


And to push the Trinity, which is what I presume you are doing, is going to be a tough job in a thread on a forum where opposing debaters don't get excluded......

Nice.

The last part, is there a trinity in your experience?

 

[wizanda]

But I don't believe that Yeshua BarYosef was this entity, don't believe that he was physically seen globally, don't believe that he was, would be or is our salvation.

So is Yeshua known globally, as jesus, and has the Gospel gone to all nations?

If you're thinking we're meaning Yeshua is salvation because his murder brought atonement, please note our rejection of John, Paul, and Simon is because they all teach Balaam teachings, that God required his murder for this reason.

Yeshua taught through his knowledge is how we'd gain salvation, and those who follow this until the end are the ones saved; in other words those wise enough not to fall for all the Pharisaic lies will be in the Messianic Age.

In my opinion.