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Jesus of Nazareth Studied the Bhagavad Gita and buddhist texts

Subhankar Zac

Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
Josephus refers to Jesus in two places. In one, he says that James, the Christian leader in Jerusalem who was stoned, was "the brother of the Jesus whom they claimed was the messiah." That obviously is not a Christian insertion. The other passage has two interpolations that are easily spotted by anyone with experience of textual criticism or even just of using the apparatus criticus in Classical texts. The text runs (I'm quoting from memory — too lazy to look up the text and translate it! — and I've left out any punctuation as that would not have been used by J.):

"he was a wise man [if he was only a man [he was the messiah]] who performed strange deeds and taught many people on account of his teaching the leaders of our people made accusations against him and he was sentenced to death by the procurator Pontius Pilate after his death his followers did not lose faith in him and the movement called Christians still exists."

The square brackets mark the insertions and the order in which the were added, the first by a sympathiser, the second by a believer. They stand out because they don't fit the beliefs of J. or the flow of the text, so they couldn't have been written by Josephus. But the rest of passage must be authentic as a Christian would not have been surprised by the persistence of Christianity, nor would he have spoken of "our people".

The fact that J. was not a contemporary of Jesus doesn't mean that he was "parroting" things. If some-one born in 1980 wrote a book about Hitler, would you refuse to read it? It would be a secondary source, as opposed to a primary one, but sometimes secondary sources are all we have in history. There are no primary sources for Alexander the Great, for example.


"the brother of the Jesus whom they claimed was the messiah."- no orthodox Jew will call this man a messiah.
So, yeah, Christian insertion.

Often that's why I try to avoid Christians. To make an absurd claim look real, they will compare it to actual events.

If a 1980s guy writes about Hitler AND ONLY HIM, NO ONE ELSE BUT HIM, then I'll not believe him.
The star on the day of jrsus's birth, the earthquake at his DEATh, no record of Jesus anywhere outside the NT.
No secular non Christian text that is contemporary speaks about Jesus.

There are no primary sources of Alexander the great, but his presence is well lit in the borders of India with some first hand responses too.

Jesus's possibility of existing in reality is close to zero.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
"the brother of the Jesus whom they claimed was the messiah."- no orthodox Jew will call this man a messiah.
So, yeah, Christian insertion.

Often that's why I try to avoid Christians. To make an absurd claim look real, they will compare it to actual events.

If a 1980s guy writes about Hitler AND ONLY HIM, NO ONE ELSE BUT HIM, then I'll not believe him.
The star on the day of jrsus's birth, the earthquake at his DEATh, no record of Jesus anywhere outside the NT.
No secular non Christian text that is contemporary speaks about Jesus.

There are no primary sources of Alexander the great, but his presence is well lit in the borders of India with some first hand responses too.

Jesus's possibility of existing in reality is close to zero.
No your views are mistaken. Josephus recounts many claimants to the messianic title in his book. Messianic movements were a big thing in that period of time and Josephus lists Jesus and his followers to be just another Jewish group with messianic claims. Removing the interpolations makes the first statement plausibly historical as well.
Paul's letter also makes it clear that the early Jerusalem church was being run by a few apostles and Jesus's brother James. What is more convincing to me is that the gospels look like a historical even that has been reworked and mythologized for religious and theological purposes rather than a created myth that has been historicized. The basic outline of the story:-

that a random guy from a obscure hamlet of Nazareth joined the millennial movement of John the Baptist (also mentioned by Josephus and it appears Baptist's own group was far more influential that the Christian splinter at that period from his writings) and then split off with his own band of followers and, after a brief period of charismatic preaching of the coming kingdom, tried to bring in the end times himself by forcibly entering the temple with his followers ...causing the Romans to crucify him as a dangerous fanatic disturber of peace and for sedition

Seems very in keeping with something that would happen in those times. There was subsequent attempts by his followers to glorify him, saying he foretold his execution, that he was resurrected and vindicated by God, that he was actually the messiah by changing his birthplace to Jerusalem and other fanciful tales of his birth, etc.
 

Subhankar Zac

Hare Krishna,Hare Krishna,
No your views are mistaken. Josephus recounts many claimants to the messianic title in his book. Messianic movements were a big thing in that period of time and Josephus lists Jesus and his followers to be just another Jewish group with messianic claims. Removing the interpolations makes the first statement plausibly historical as well.
Paul's letter also makes it clear that the early Jerusalem church was being run by a few apostles and Jesus's brother James. What is more convincing to me is that the gospels look like a historical even that has been reworked and mythologized for religious and theological purposes rather than a created myth that has been historicized. The basic outline of the story:-

that a random guy from a obscure hamlet of Nazareth joined the millennial movement of John the Baptist (also mentioned by Josephus and it appears Baptist's own group was far more influential that the Christian splinter at that period from his writings) and then split off with his own band of followers and, after a brief period of charismatic preaching of the coming kingdom, tried to bring in the end times himself by forcibly entering the temple with his followers ...causing the Romans to crucify him as a dangerous fanatic disturber of peace and for sedition

Seems very in keeping with something that would happen in those times. There was subsequent attempts by his followers to glorify him, saying he foretold his execution, that he was resurrected and vindicated by God, that he was actually the messiah by changing his birthplace to Jerusalem and other fanciful tales of his birth, etc.


1. Josephus being an orthodox Jew till the day he died, is unlikely to list Jesus as a messiah. Something highly out of chatecter even today.
2. Jesus died in 33 AD, Josephus born 70 AD. NOT CONTEMPORARY.
3. Major Christian apologists agree that this has Christian editing behind it.
4. No contemporary source outside the bible testifies of Jesus.
No mention of the birth star or the quake when he died, or feeding fish or raising the dead.
No multitudes. First Christian document mentioning Jesus comes in the letters of galatians in around 49 AD.

Think of that how you will.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
I myself don't believe that Jesus was even crucified, its a metaphor for dying to old self and being resurrected to our knew self, the whole story of Jesus was just that, a metaphor, but sadly it was turned into a literal story, with everyone fighting over who this story truly was,
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
1. Josephus being an orthodox Jew till the day he died, is unlikely to list Jesus as a messiah. Something highly out of chatecter even today.
2. Jesus died in 33 AD, Josephus born 70 AD. NOT CONTEMPORARY.
3. Major Christian apologists agree that this has Christian editing behind it.
4. No contemporary source outside the bible testifies of Jesus.
No mention of the birth star or the quake when he died, or feeding fish or raising the dead.
No multitudes. First Christian document mentioning Jesus comes in the letters of galatians in around 49 AD.

Think of that how you will.
1. Josephus wrote a "history" where he said that certain Jewish people created a sect that claimed Jesus was the messiah. He describes several other such messianic groups who also claimed some guy or the other as the Jewish messiah. He was not endorsing Jesus's messianic claims at all by merely describing it.
2. Certainly there are no contemporary accounts of Jesus at all, which is true for MOST historical persons from the ancient era. Buddha and Confucious are good examples. There are no accounts of both men that can even be dated to 100 years of their death. This is the case for most people who were not powerful kings and queens who issued coins etc. in their name.
3. Certainly, which can be easily separable from the original from stylistic observation. Just as Plato's own thoughts are separable from Socrates thoughts in his writings. Its very very common for such additions to occur in ancient writings. Every ancient document of any significant circulation in the ancient world had such additions. No copyright ideas then.
4. Obviously all miracles are add-ins. Julius Ceaser's biography also has lots of miracles and he was publicly worshiped as God in Rome for hundreds of years attested to be divine by his own adopted son Augustus. Socrates himself was worshiped as a God in much of Greece in later times. None of these means any of those miracles attributed to Jesus, Ceasar or Socrates actually happened. History simply tries to reconstruct the plausible historical persons behind the veneer of myths and legends and regal or theological propaganda. That is its task. Jesus was never more than a man, according to history, but he probably did exist as a man.
 

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
"the brother of the Jesus whom they claimed was the messiah."- no orthodox Jew will call this man a messiah.
So, yeah, Christian insertion.
Eh?! Josephus was not calling Jesus the messiah: he said that some (i.e. Christians) called Jesus the messiah. If the passage was an interpolation by a Christian, it would say "the brother of Jesus the messiah".
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
I missed that part of the gospel when he walked from the ta-hi chi temples in china
To be fair, the bible skips out a lot of Jesus' life. He could've been doing Roman martial arts, for all we know. For reasons that are unclear, apparently Teen Jesus was just too boring or scandalous.
 
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