Jesus Resurrection

[lukethethird]

What other alleged witnesses? You keep making the error of assuming that the tales you read in the Bible are from eyewitnesses. That does not appear to be the case.

They may not be eyewitnesses to the events portrayed, but they are not lies. Paul writes about his experiences as he understands them, visions and all, while the gospel writers are writing a mythology/theology, no need for us to call them crazy or liars.

 

[Riders]

They may not be eyewitnesses to the events portrayed, but they are not lies. Paul writes about his experiences as he understands them, visions and all, while the gospel writers are writing a mythology/theology, no need for us to call them crazy or liars.

They may not be eyewitnesses to the events portrayed, but they are not lies. Paul writes about his experiences as he understands them, visions and all, while the gospel writers are writing a mythology/theology, no need for us to call them crazy or liars.

O Paul did not write it.What proof do you have that Paul wrote it?

 

[Riders]

What about all the other alleged witnesses of the resurrection, where they also insane crazy people with hallucinations?

Where the apostoles like peter, the woman or James where also insane, or would you consider those testimonies lies (or legends)

What witnesses what proof that there are any witnesses?

 

[sealchan]

There is an Empty tomb and there are post mortem appearances testified multiple people that we clearly not lying.

...embedded in a text written decades later which diverges from other texts indicating that the author was using oral or written sources and feeling free to alter them. The earliest source, Mark, doesnt include the resurrection in many of its early copies.

 

[lukethethird]

That is right, so the tale is slightly better than unsupported claims. Of course what Paul got wrong and is later reinterpreted is the worst witness against him. His repeated belief that the end was near tells us that he was not who he believed himself to be.

Apparently apocalyptic preachers were not uncommon in that time, Roman occupations and all, whatever, he turned out to be an early architect of Christianity. Forget about what Acts writes about Paul, it's much later church propaganda trying to gloss over the divide between Paul and the Jerusalem group.

 

[leroy]

What other alleged witnesses? You keep making the error of assuming that the tales you read in the Bible are from eyewitnesses. That does not appear to be the case.

According to the gospels and Paul there where many witnesses of the resurrection.

One of the many alleged witnesses was Paul, and you claim that he is crazy and had hallucinations.

What about the rest of the alleged witnesses? James, the apostoles, the women etc where they also hallucinating, ? Where they lyers, or perhaps the authors of the new testament quoted from a tall tales......what is your view?

 

[Jollybear]

once again, what so called extra sensory knowledge?

You do realize that you are relying on Paul's account for the Ananias claimclaim, don't you? You are using circular logic. To claim that Paul had such knowledge You would need an outside source.

Now wer back to squar one, paul is lying.

Ok, account for his persecutions and death then?

 

[Riders]

According to the gospels and Paul there where many witnesses of the resurrection.

One if the many alleged witnesses was Paul, and you claim that he is crazy and had hallucinations.

What about the rest of the alleged witnesses? James, the apostoles, the women etc where they also hallucinating, ? Where they lyers, or perhaps the authors of the new testament quoted from a tall tales......what is your view?

They are not witnesses .

 

[Riders]

Now wer back to squar one, paul is lying.

Ok, account for his persecutions and death then?

Paul did not write that hes not lieing because those manuscripts were not written by him.

 

[Riders]

Now wer back to squar one, paul is lying.

Ok, account for his persecutions and death then?

What proof do you have that he was persecuted of died that way or even lived or that proof that Paul even wrote any of this?

 

[Jollybear]

What proof do you have that any of that happened?You guys have not answered any of my questions and I say its just a legend made up.

Why did paul make up what he claimed?

Paul did not write the new testament, sense everything was taken from copies of copies of copies of copies of copies etc what proof do you have that it was even copied right and that that story is even the correct story?

Wat proof so you have that any of that happened none?????

Remember that chart i gave you? We have copies of manuscripts dated very early to the originals and if i recall, its thousands of copies and when compared together, very little is changed. It amounts to something a kin to 1 to 5% out of 100%. Thats pretty good if you ask me. The scribes (e.g. the human printing press back then) did a good job for the most part. Plus you got the church fathers quoting the New Testament and when you compare that to our Ne Testament, AGAIN nothing is changed.

 

[Jollybear]

What proof do you have that he was persecuted of died that way or even lived or that proof that Paul even wrote any of this?

At the begining of pauls letters paul says its him writting. We also got other letters not from paul, but paul is mentioned. Like peters letters mention paul.

1 corinthians 1, example

"Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and our brother Sosthenes,

2To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

3Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ."

 

[Riders]

Why did paul make up what he claimed?



Remember that chart i gave you? We have copies of manuscripts dated very early to the originals and if i recall, its thousands of copies and when compared together, very little is changed. It amounts to something a kin to 1 to 5% out of 100%. Thats pretty good if you ask me. The scribes (e.g. the human printing press back then) did a good job for the most part. Plus you got the church fathers quoting the New Testament and when you compare that to our Ne Testament, AGAIN nothing is changed.

BWAHAHA I notice none of you are speaking tome I keep forgetting I am not smart enough for you to preach at me. Anyways nope your wrong they are copies of copies of copies of copies.

They have the KJ version of the 1600s version bible, and todays bible has nothing in common with the original anyways even from the 1600s much less bible times.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They may not be eyewitnesses to the events portrayed, but they are not lies. Paul writes about his experiences as he understands them, visions and all, while the gospel writers are writing a mythology/theology, no need for us to call them crazy or liars.

The claim of lies is coming from the Christians here. But I will stick with the belief that he was almost certainly delusional.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Now wer back to squar one, paul is lying.

Ok, account for his persecutions and death then?

No, that is your claim, not mine.

 

[Riders]

At the begining of pauls letters paul says its him writting. We also got other letters not from paul, but paul is mentioned. Like peters letters mention paul.

That does not mean anything. It all happened over 2000 years ago in a society and place all together different then now and we can not expect to have correct information on any of it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

According to the gospels and Paul there where many witnesses of the resurrection.

One of the many alleged witnesses was Paul, and you claim that he is crazy and had hallucinations.

What about the rest of the alleged witnesses? James, the apostoles, the women etc where they also hallucinating, ? Where they lyers, or perhaps the authors of the new testament quoted from a tall tales......what is your view?

Only Paul made the five hundred witnesses claim. James "book" is very short and he makes no such claim. The apostles did not attest to anything that I know of.

 

[Subduction Zone]

...embedded in a text written decades later which diverges from other texts indicating that the author was using oral or written sources and feeling free to alter them. The earliest source, Mark, doesnt include the resurrection in many of its early copies.

Yep, the resurrection in Mark was thought to have been added much later. In fact almost every Bible notes this in the footnotes.

 

[leroy]

Paul did not write that hes not lieing because those manuscripts were not written by him.

According to Richard Career (the jesus myth theorist scholar that you quoted) Paul is the author of those letters.

Is seems to me that you are jumping from one theory to an other

 

[leroy]

Paul did not write that hes not lieing because those manuscripts were not written by him.

According to Richard Career (the jesus myth theorist scholar that you quoted) Paul is the author of those letters.

Is seems to me that you are jumojum from one theory to an other