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Jesus Resurrection

Jollybear

Jollybear

Hey
lukethethird said:
It's a story, why believe that anyone died for it? The witnesses dying are part of the story, how is it not fiction? What can make us believe any of it?
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Thats not feasable because it has the hallmarks of history. That can be shown from multiple sources, christian and other at that period and down the line.

In otherwords if its PURPOSELY written as fiction by the authors, then there was ONE BIG *** conspiracy to keep that a secret.

Its not feasable.
 
Jollybear

Jollybear

Hey
Riders said:
Theres actually quite a few differences besides just leaving the apocrypha out of todays bible and the 1600s. Theres a lot of scriptures written differently and a lot of scripture left out that;s not the apocrypha..

Its very different then our bible.
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Id like to see real side by side, data examples of these very differences.
 
Prometheus85

Prometheus85

Active Member
Jollybear said:
Theres not just clement, theres the other church fathers that are mentioned in that article i gave you. Plus clement does have a letter that majority of schollars accept as from him. Its 1rst epistle of clement to the church in Corinthians. Date around 96 AD. And in the letter the apostles are mentioned. There said to have appointed bishops over the church and it also mentions paul and peters myrters. First Epistle of Clement - Wikipedia



Your trying to argue clement did not know the apostles? You got evidence of that? His own letter mentions them. They lived in the same time period.



Thats a accusation and a false one at that. In fact i have read bart ermans book called misquoting Jesus and that book certainly does not confirm my views. And i have read articles that dont confirm my views and watched youtube debates on the subject. So, dont tell me im biased, why dont you point the finger at your own self because your the one that asked for evidence and then when its given, instead of refuting it, you accuse me of bias and act like thats a refutation. Well, sorry there pale , ITS NOT a refutation.

Why do so many people love wasting time on crap like

"Your ignorant"

"Your dishonest"

"Your stupid"

Instead of just getting to the issues and staying there. Its so dam annoying.
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I’m the very same wiki article you gave me says this about the letter

"Although the work is traditionally attributed to Pope Clement, it is anonymous, and there is no evidence that Rome had a bishop in the monarchical sense at the time".

So your arguing that not only did clement write the letter he also knew the apostles when the very wiki article you gave me contradicts that. You be the judge.
 
Jollybear

Jollybear

Hey
Prometheus85 said:
I’m the very same wiki article you gave me says this about the letter

"Although the work is traditionally attributed to Pope Clement, it is anonymous, and there is no evidence that Rome had a bishop in the monarchical sense at the time".

So your arguing that not only did clement write the letter he also knew the apostles when the very wiki article you gave me contradicts that. You be the judge.
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The article dont contradict that. Learn to read.
 
lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
Jollybear said:
Thats not feasable because it has the hallmarks of history. That can be shown from multiple sources, christian and other at that period and down the line.

In otherwords if its PURPOSELY written as fiction by the authors, then there was ONE BIG *** conspiracy to keep that a secret.

Its not feasable.
Click to expand...
We just have to read the gospels to know they are fiction, unless we are to believe in magic.
 
Jollybear

Jollybear

Hey
Subduction Zone said:
No, at best we know that he claimed to have talked with those two. And so what if he did.

Look at the problems with Christian claims. Paul claims five hundred witnesses but no one else does. In Matthew we read of a zombie apocalypse but no one else noticed.
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Just because we dont have someone else write it down dont mean pauls imagining it.

Again, you admit hes not lying. So, how can you invent or make up something that originates with you and then make yourself truly believe the made up falsehood to be true?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Jollybear said:
Just because we dont have someone else write it down dont mean pauls imagining it.

Again, you admit hes not lying. So, how can you invent or make up something that originates with you and then make yourself truly believe the made up falsehood to be true?
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I see that rational thought still eludes you. I cannot help you.
 
Jollybear

Jollybear

Hey
lukethethird said:
We just have to read the gospels to know they are fiction, unless we are to believe in magic.
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I find it harder to believe these witnesses and all there successors, along with whole christian comunities would die for something they made up. I find that harder to believe vs believe in magic.

No one dies for known lies and no one truly believes there own delebarate lies. That for me is harder to believe then a resurection.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Jollybear said:
I find it harder to believe these witnesses and all there successors, along with whole christian comunities would die for something they made up. I find that harder to believe vs believe in magic.

No one dies for known lies and no one truly believes there own delebarate lies. That for me is harder to believe then a resurection.
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The problem is that there are no witnesses. All we have are Paul's tall tales.

And why do you think that people will not did for "lies". Again, this is your error not mine. I gave you the example of David Koresh and Jim Jones. You could not find any real difference between those two and Paul.
 
lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
Jollybear said:
I find it harder to believe these witnesses and all there successors, along with whole christian comunities would die for something they made up. I find that harder to believe vs believe in magic.

No one dies for known lies and no one truly believes there own delebarate lies. That for me is harder to believe then a resurection.
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I see what you mean, witnesses, successors, whole Christian communities, like everyone was in on it, like a conspiracy theory, never thought of it that way before, but now everything is starting to make sense.
 
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