Jesus Resurrection

[leroy]

Why are you so quick to jump to faulty conclusions?

Quick? This thread is 30+ pages long and nobody knows what your view is.

It is a fact that various documents from the new testament claim that some people saw the risen Jesus.

So where this people hallucinating?, where these people lying,? where the authors of the new testament lying? where the authors quoting from a legend? How do you explain that fact? I simply what to understand your view.
...............................................
BTW, do you grant the burial of Jesus?

 

[leroy]

No, you should simply avoid using terribly biased sources.

Did you watch the video that I linked? It explains using the history of the time why the Road to Damascus story was likely to be a lie. Paul appears to have lied there. Remember he never saw Jesus and needed an excuse for his "authority". He is not that different from Cartman:

Ok so back again, did Paul Lie?..............does the video represent your view?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Quick? This thread is 30+ pages long and nobody knows what your view is.

It is a fact that various documents from the new testament claim that some people saw the risen Jesus.

So where this people hallucinating?, where these people lying,? where the authors of the new testament lying? where the authors quoting from a legend? How do you explain that fact? I simply what to understand your view.
...............................................
BTW, do you grant the burial of Jesus?

Probably a mixture of the above. Look at how new crazy sects are formed. How did Jim Jones get his followers or David Koresh? People are willing to believe a "lie". People are willing to die for those beliefs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok so back again, did Paul Lie?..............does the video represent your view?

It is pretty clear that the Damascus event makes no sense at all. Do you realize that Damascus was not a Jewish town. That Paul would have had not authority there?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

There is no point of disagreement

But the problem with saying he's buried is that "resurrections" only seem to happen when someone is left out in the air or entombed, like Juliet. Jesus wouldn't be waking up after dirt aspiration.

Please define”independent sources”

Did the Roman centurion write a letter going "Oh, wow, this nice guy whose people we're slaughtering fixed up my lover servant real good"? There are scenes where only the Jewish authorities were really witnesses, so where is THEIR stuff? Do any temple inventories coincide with Jesus' tantrum?

Sure he went to Jerusalem to see the witnesses, and then he reported what they told him. (Including the burial of Jesus)……

Which witnesses? I thought they had all run off.

But the burial of Jesus is a theologically neutral claim, if anything it was an embarrassing event for the apostles, because the “good guy” that gave Jesus a proper burial was not an apostole but a member of the Sanhedrin.

The problem with everything in the bible is that many people ignore political elements and such. Was he doing it to be nice or because it was offensive to have him on the cross on a Saturday?

He did what honest historians do, he traveled Jerusalem and other places, where he talked to the witnesses, and he reported what he investigated.

So, if I go to interview Westboro Baptist Church and they say that gays bring hurricanes, I should take them at their word and consider it historical?

OK, but let's say the author wrote fiction and next thing we know everyone is believing it. The author is scratching his head like, WTF.

Like Jedi. Being alive in a time where clearly fictional stories are seriously considered religions tells me a lot about how ancient religions started. First, there were some campfire stories. Then, people started arguing about them. Next, people started killing each other over them. Finally, the winners declared the stories true with cosmic significance.

 

[leroy]

Probably a mixture of the above. Look at how new crazy sects are formed. How did Jim Jones get his followers or David Koresh? People are willing to believe a "lie". People are willing to die for those beliefs.

With mixture you mean that some appearances where lies, others where hallucinations, others where legends etc.?

 

[leroy]

It is pretty clear that the Damascus event makes no sense at all. Do you realize that Damascus was not a Jewish town. That Paul would have had not authority there?

Ok,. So the story is a lie? Not a delusion but a deliberated lie? Is that your view?.............

Please answer clear: yes or no

Does the video represent your view?

Do you grant that Jesus was buried on a tomb?

 

[leroy]

But the problem with saying he's buried is that "resurrections" only seem to happen when someone is left out in the air or entombed, like Juliet. Jesus wouldn't be waking up after dirt aspiration.


Did the Roman centurion write a letter going "Oh, wow, this nice guy whose people we're slaughtering fixed up my lover servant real good"? There are scenes where only the Jewish authorities were really witnesses, so where is THEIR stuff? Do any temple inventories coincide with Jesus' tantrum?


Which witnesses? I thought they had all run off.


The problem with everything in the bible is that many people ignore political elements and such. Was he doing it to be nice or because it was offensive to have him on the cross on a Saturday?


So, if I go to interview Westboro Baptist Church and they say that gays bring hurricanes, I should take them at their word and consider it historical?


Like Jedi. Being alive in a time where clearly fictional stories are seriously considered religions tells me a lot about how ancient religions started. First, there were some campfire stories. Then, people started arguing about them. Next, people started killing each other over them. Finally, the winners declared the stories true with cosmic significance.

So based on the evidence that we have, do you grant that Jesus died and was placed on a tomb? Yes or no?

 

[Subduction Zone]

With mixture you mean that some appearances where lies, others where hallucinations, others where legends etc.?

Yes, there is no need to assume that it is all lies. There is a saying, stories grow with the telling. Facts get exaggerated until they are nowhere near what happened. Lies are deliberate. The errors that led to Christianity did not all have to be lies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok,. So the story is a lie? Not a delusion but a deliberated lie? Is that your view?.............

Please answer clear: yes or no

Does the video represent your view?

Do you grant that Jesus was buried on a tomb?

That very well could be. It does not hold up when investigated.

You should not demand a "yes or no" answer. Most questions cannot be answered that way. For example:

Have you quit beating your wife? Answer yes or no.

If you say yes, you are admitting that you beat your wife in the past. If you say no, you are claiming to still beat your wife.

Tell me, do you think that the story holds up when investigated?

 

[Subduction Zone]

So based on the evidence that we have, do you grant that Jesus died and was placed on a tomb? Yes or no?

The evidence for that is lacking as well. All one can say is that it is hard to tell and does not sound very likely.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

So based on the evidence that we have, do you grant that Jesus died and was placed on a tomb? Yes or no?

I acknowledge that's the story. It's not hard, given what was going on at the time in Roman Judea, that a religious terrorist was executed and his followers didn't take it well.

 

[lukethethird]

Tell me, do you think that the story holds up when investigated?

Investigate a story, what a concept.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Investigate a story, what a concept.

If only they would. Unfortunately they have had this drilled into their heads almost since birth, that along with the threat of damnation makes them unable to reason logically.

 

[leroy]

I acknowledge that's the story. It's not hard, given what was going on at the time in Roman Judea, that a religious terrorist was executed and his followers didn't take it well.

Are you answering yes to my question?

 

[lukethethird]

If only they would. Unfortunately they have had this drilled into their heads almost since birth, that along with the threat of damnation makes them unable to reason logically.

Maybe we should threaten them with damnation, I mean, if that's what they respond to, then we can tell them what's right.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Maybe we should threaten them with damnation, I mean, if that's what they respond to, then we can tell them what's right.

how is claiming that God is evil make it right?

 

[lukethethird]

how is claiming that God is evil make it right?

Tell them it's for their own good, they'll understand that, and then we will tell them what's right.

 

[lukethethird]

BTW, do you grant the burial of Jesus?

That sounds like a religious question, one that can have a variety of answers.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Are you answering yes to my question?

Do you grant that Luke had an epic death?