Jesus Said "It Is Finished"

[Nova2216]

But you are doing what you say should not be done. One verse says people were added to the church. A completely different verse says people were translated into the kingdom. You INTERPRET this as meaning the church and the kingdom are the same. But no scripture actually says that. It is YOUR opinion or interpretation. There is no reason God could not set up a church and a separate kingdom. Nothing in scripture says they are the same. It is only your interpretation of what it means. One of the thousands of misinterpretations you say exist.

For the moment erase your mind of all you know and let us examine the scriptures.


People were placed into the church (by the lord) in the first century in (Acts 2:47) (1Cor.12:13).

People were placed into the kingdom in the first century according to (Col.1:13).

Is this true?

 

[Nova2216]

But you are doing what you say should not be done. One verse says people were added to the church. A completely different verse says people were translated into the kingdom. You INTERPRET this as meaning the church and the kingdom are the same. But no scripture actually says that. It is YOUR opinion or interpretation. There is no reason God could not set up a church and a separate kingdom. Nothing in scripture says they are the same. It is only your interpretation of what it means. One of the thousands of misinterpretations you say exist.

Do you believe in the trinity?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

For the moment erase your mind of all you know and let us examine the scriptures.


People were placed into the church (by the lord) in the first century in (Acts 2:47) (1Cor.12:13).

People were placed into the kingdom in the first century according to (Col.1:13).

Is this true?

People were translated into the kingdom.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Do you believe in the trinity?

No.

 

[Nova2216]

People were translated into the kingdom.

Do you agree people were placed into the church by the Lord in (Acts 2:38,47)?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Do you agree people were placed into the church by the Lord in (Acts 2:38,47)?

Acts 2:47 says that people were added to the church.

 

[Nova2216]

.

Acts 2:47 says that people were added to the church.

Good!!!


1. The kingdom will be established with POWER during the lives of the apostles.(in the first century) (Mark 9:1)

If the above prophecy did not happen then there must be some apostles walking this earth today which are 2000yrs old.

2. The apostles were commanded to - (Luke 24:47-49)

go to Jerusalem

just after the ress. of Christ (on the day of Pentecost)

and wait until the POWER came upon the. apostles.

Remission of sins will be preached at that time.

When we see the POWER come upon the apostles the kingdom will be established.

This all happened in (Acts 2).

What are the chances out of all the chapters in the bible that the church and the kingdom would be mentioned in this very chapter?



Mr 9:1 ¶ And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.


Lu 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


Ac 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence... 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

 

[Nova2216]

In (Mt.16:18,19) Jesus taught the church and the kingdom are one in the same thing by using them interchangeably.

(Mark 9:1) (Luke 24:44-49)(Acts 1:5,8) points to (Acts 2:1-4) as the point in time when the kingdom was to be established.

According to the scriptures above the kingdom and the church are mentioned in (Acts 2) also.

(Col, 1:13) confirms the kingdom was established in the first century b/c people were placed into it.

This opposes the Premillennialist position that the kingdom has not yet been established so they get upset when these scriptures are posted.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Perhaps there is a difference between established and actual operation. I can establish a new company by contacting the state government where I live. They will send me a certificate that I now own a company. But I might wait days or weeks before actually starting work on the business. I am sure God had a plan for a kingdom before the earth was formed. That does not mean there were people in it.

 

[Nova2216]

Perhaps there is a difference between established and actual operation. I can establish a new company by contacting the state government where I live. They will send me a certificate that I now own a company. But I might wait days or weeks before actually starting work on the business. I am sure God had a plan for a kingdom before the earth was formed. That does not mean there were people in it.

The Lord established the kingdom (church) in (Acts 2) and in the very same chapter gave the ENTRY REGULATIONS for everyone (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 22:16)(Gal.3:22-29)

The Lord also began placing people into that kingdom (church).(Acts 2:38,47)

It had a king (Christ)

A Law (NT Law)

A territory (The church)

 

[Nova2216]

Perhaps there is a difference between established and actual operation. I can establish a new company by contacting the state government where I live. They will send me a certificate that I now own a company. But I might wait days or weeks before actually starting work on the business. I am sure God had a plan for a kingdom before the earth was formed. That does not mean there were people in it.

I never said people were placed into the kingdom BEFORE it was ever established.

How could that be?

But the kingdom was established in (Acts 2:38,47) and the Lord placed people into that kingdom (church).(Col.1:13)

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I am pretty sure neither of us will change our minds so we might as well leave it at that.

 

[Nova2216]

I am pretty sure neither of us will change our minds so we might as well leave it at that.

Fair enough.

 

[Nova2216]

I realize it is so very difficult to change from what one has been taught for years by their family, friends, teachers and preachers. But is it so very important to be willing to place the word of God above any man's opinions. Every departure from the TRUTH since the first century was due to a man setting aside the word of God for his own thoughts and desires.

That is placing one soul in jeopardy.

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

All it would take is one verse that says the church and the kingdom are the same. But when there is one verse that talks about the church and a different verse that talks about the kingdom it is not enough to prove they are the same even if they were both started about the same time and people were put in them both at about the same time.

 

[Nova2216]

All it would take is one verse that says the church and the kingdom are the same. But when there is one verse that talks about the church and a different verse that talks about the kingdom it is not enough to prove they are the same even if they were both started about the same time and people were put in them both at about the same time.

So you agree the scriptural arguments I made was powerful and true, but you reject the word of God.

What you want is all that information IN ONE VERSE. (that would be a very big verse)

So you WANT IT YOUR WAY.

We are not ordering hamburgers we are talking about our eternity.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

So you agree the scriptural arguments I made was powerful and true, but you reject the word of God.

What you want is all that information IN ONE VERSE. (that would be a very big verse)

So you WANT IT YOUR WAY.

We are not ordering hamburgers we are talking about our eternity.

I absolutely do NOT reject the word of God. I am looking for the word that says the church and the kingdom are the same. I see no reason why Jesus cannot be the head of a church and the king of a kingdom at the same time. Just like a businessman could easily be the CEO of one company and the treasurer of another company. That would not mean the two companies are the same. I absolutely accept anything in scripture that says they are the same What I reject is your unproven claim that they are the same.

 

[Nova2216]

I absolutely do NOT reject the word of God. I am looking for the word that says the church and the kingdom are the same. I see no reason why Jesus cannot be the head of a church and the king of a kingdom at the same time. Just like a businessman could easily be the CEO of one company and the treasurer of another company. That would not mean the two companies are the same. I absolutely accept anything in scripture that says they are the same What I reject is your unproven claim that they are the same.

Friend, I think you have made progress b/c Jesus is the head of the church as He is the king of the kingdom.

The word of God is telling us they (the kingdom / the church) are in fact ONE . (on earth in the first century)

Maybe I did not make that clear enough.

If that is the case I apologize.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Friend, I think you have made progress b/c Jesus is the head of the church as He is the king of the kingdom.

The word of God is telling us they (the kingdom / the church) are in fact ONE . (on earth in the first century)

Maybe I did not make that clear enough.

If that is the case I apologize.

I appreciate being called friend because I have not always acted like a friend. You made it very clear that you believe the church and kingdom are the same. I have said all along that even if both were in existence in the first century, that does not prove they are the same. Some verses talk about the church and other verses talk about the kingdom. No verses say anything about them being the same. I simply want to see one verse that even suggests that they are the same. Maybe just use the words church and kingdom in the same verse. I am even willing to admit that they might possibly be the same but I would like to see thar plainly stated in one verse. I hope we can agree in a friendly way that there is no clear statement in scripture that the church and kingdom are one and the same.

 

[Nova2216]

I appreciate being called friend because I have not always acted like a friend. You made it very clear that you believe the church and kingdom are the same. I have said all along that even if both were in existence in the first century, that does not prove they are the same. Some verses talk about the church and other verses talk about the kingdom. No verses say anything about them being the same. I simply want to see one verse that even suggests that they are the same. Maybe just use the words church and kingdom in the same verse. I am even willing to admit that they might possibly be the same but I would like to see thar plainly stated in one verse. I hope we can agree in a friendly way that there is no clear statement in scripture that the church and kingdom are one and the same.

I will tell you what concerns me.

I have heard this argument in religious discussions before on other topics.

The person will say, they want to see "ALL THE GOSPEL IN ONLY ONE SCRIPTURE".

I would be willing to give it to them in just such a fashion IF, IF, IF the Lord had put in all in only one scripture.

HE DID NOT.

I DO NOT KNOW WHY.

(Deut.29:29)