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Jesus story isn't original

I know that. I'm debating on why believe it if if there is no credibility? According to those that believe in the bible, it is the truth and proof of christianity being real.

There are people that believe in bigfoot, the Lochness monster and vampires. People will believe anything. Overall, humanities not that bright or compassionate.
 

ninerbuff

godless wonder
Yes, there are similarities. But, then there are also similarities between Mohammed and Egyptian Pharaohs. So your point?

My guess is, my early life was pretty similar to someone else's - does that mean my parents copied them?!

Also, I just looked up on this again, and according to one source Jesus was beheaded.
But you have written documentation of where you were born, when you were born, how much you weighed, who your birth parents are, etc. Though someone may have a similar life, the chances of all of facts about you, lining up with another individual is practically impossible. Your own birth is unique in that it can't be copied.
 

dogsgod

Well-Known Member
LORD RAGLANS SCALE



  1. The hero's mother is a royal virgin
  2. His father is a king and
  3. often a near relative of the mother, but
  4. the circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
  5. he is also reputed to be the son of a god
  6. at birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or maternal grandfather, to kill him, but
  7. He is spirited away, and
  8. Reared by foster-parents in a far country
  9. We are told nothing of his childhood, but
  10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
  11. After a victory over the king and or giant, dragon, or wild beast
  12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and
  13. becomes king
  14. For a time he reigns uneventfully and
  15. Prescribes laws but
  16. later loses favor with the gods and or his people and
  17. Is driven from from the throne and the city after which
  18. He meets with a mysterious death
  19. often at the top of a hill.
  20. his children, if any, do not succeed him.
  21. his body is not buried, but nevertheless
  22. he has one or more holy sepulchres.
LORD RAGLAN's SCALE (The ladder to eternal success)
 

ninerbuff

godless wonder
And of course Christmas, originally a Pagan celebration, has it's roots on where jesus was supposedly born.
Sounds to much like other "births" and aligns with the winter solstice.

the sun is "born" on the 25th of December it rises in the constellation Virgo (the virgin) also known as the "House of Bread" or "Beth-le-hem" in Hebrew
 

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
And of course Christmas, originally a Pagan celebration, has it's roots on where jesus was supposedly born.
Sounds to much like other "births" and aligns with the winter solstice.

the sun is "born" on the 25th of December it rises in the constellation Virgo (the virgin) also known as the "House of Bread" or "Beth-le-hem" in Hebrew

Excellent. So what?
 

Nerthus

Wanderlust
Your own birth is unique in that it can't be copied.

Yes and so was Jesus'. He wasn't born in the same place as Horus. His parent's were not Horus' parents. Nor the same date, I could go on.

The fact is, there are similarities between everything if you look hard enough. I could have parents with the same names as you, I could be born on the same day. There may be a few similarities, but there are more differences.

Though someone may have a similar life, the chances of all of facts about you, lining up with another individual is practically impossible.

Not all the 'facts' about Horus line up. Yes, there may be a few similarities, but there are more differences. If you actually look in to Egyptian mythology, you will clearly see a high number of differences.

I have heard this so many times since that film Zeitgeist came out.
 

ninerbuff

godless wonder
Yes and so was Jesus'. He wasn't born in the same place as Horus. His parent's were not Horus' parents. Nor the same date, I could go on.

The fact is, there are similarities between everything if you look hard enough. I could have parents with the same names as you, I could be born on the same day. There may be a few similarities, but there are more differences.



Not all the 'facts' about Horus line up. Yes, there may be a few similarities, but there are more differences. If you actually look in to Egyptian mythology, you will clearly see a high number of differences.

I have heard this so many times since that film Zeitgeist came out.
While there may be "similarities" even amongst humans, being born a man god, and "resurrected" to being a god would go beyond just regular similarities. All folklore man gods were just that.....folkore.
 

Nerthus

Wanderlust
While there may be "similarities" even amongst humans, being born a man god, and "resurrected" to being a god would go beyond just regular similarities. All folklore man gods were just that.....folkore.

Many sources actually say that Horus was ill and cured, not killed and resurrected. Like I said, if you seek to find similarities you will, although not all will be true.

Also, many sources say that his mother Isis used magic to bring Osiris back to life, so that he could impregnate her. And months later Horus was born.

So, yeah.
 

Politesse

Amor Vincit Omnia
Also, many sources say that his mother Isis used magic to bring Osiris back to life, so that he could impregnate her. And months later Horus was born.

So, yeah.
Now that you mention it, a Gospel based on Horus's bio would be kind of an entertaining read. Would Pontius Pilate play the role of Set?

"Are you the King of Jews?"

"I'm the king of ripping off your manhood!"

"Ow."

"And the other night when you thought you raped me? I tricked you and threw away your royal issue, so it totally does not count."

The book would end with Jesus bloodily slaughtering everyone at Golgotha with his own cross, reincarnating as Constantine, and rising into the sun.
 

Nerthus

Wanderlust
Now that you mention it, a Gospel based on Horus's bio would be kind of an entertaining read. Would Pontius Pilate play the role of Set?

"Are you the King of Jews?"

"I'm the king of ripping off your manhood!"

"Ow."

"And the other night when you thought you raped me? I tricked you and threw away your royal issue, so it totally does not count."

The book would end with Jesus bloodily slaughtering everyone at Golgotha with his own cross, reincarnating as Constantine, and rising into the sun.

It would definitely be an interesting read.
 

ninerbuff

godless wonder
Nope, a minutes gone and I'm no wiser.
So what's important about it?
Key words: virgin, Bethlehem, december 25. Now unless the constellation has moved in between the time winter solstice was created and before christ's birth, which is doubtful, jesus birth originates from winter solstice not the other way around.
And if it was a Pagan holiday to begin with, then why are christians celebrating it since following pagan rituals was forbidden by god?
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Key words: virgin, Bethlehem, december 25. Now unless the constellation has moved in between the time winter solstice was created and before christ's birth, which is doubtful, jesus birth originates from winter solstice not the other way around.
And if it was a Pagan holiday to begin with, then why are christians celebrating it since following pagan rituals was forbidden by god?

It looks to me like you've answered your own question. :shrug:

Now, I wonder, when and why did Christians start celebrating the birth of Christ on Dec 25? Or perhaps the winter solstice?
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Really?
The Four Gospels

[SIZE=+1]John[/SIZE] was one of the first twelve disciples of Jesus and therefore an eye-witness (John 19:35)
[SIZE=+1]Matthew[/SIZE] was one of the first twelve disciples of Jesus (Matthew 9:1; 10:1-4) and therefore an eye-witness

pwned
First, I'm just going to cite an article. The article shows the idea that the majority of scholars hold; actually all critical scholars hold this. Historicity of the canonical Gospels - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fact is, there are no critical scholars who believe that the people accredited to writing the Gospels actually did. They were all circulated at first without any author's attachments. They were added later on. This is agreed upon by the vast majority of all scholars.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
And of course Christmas, originally a Pagan celebration, has it's roots on where jesus was supposedly born.
Sounds to much like other "births" and aligns with the winter solstice.

the sun is "born" on the 25th of December it rises in the constellation Virgo (the virgin) also known as the "House of Bread" or "Beth-le-hem" in Hebrew
Lets start dismantling this. Can you find a single verse in the Bible that says Jesus was born on December 25th? No, because there is none. If you look at the history of why his birth is celebrated on that date you will see that it was centuries later and done more for a consolidation of power. There is no reason to believe that Jesus was born on December 25th. Strike one.

As for the story of the virgin, look at Augustus. Jesus was born during the reign of Augustus, who was considered the son of a god. He supposedly was born or a virgin by a miraculous birth, where his mother was impregnated by a god. Would you consider Augustus to be fictional then? Not at all. More so, if we look at the verse in Matthew that was used to prove that the Messiah needed to be born of a virgin, you will see one glaring error. The word used in Isaiah meant young woman. Using the LXX, there was a mistranslation into Greek, and that is the reason the word virgin was seen. As the writers of the Gospels have been seen to do, they went through the scripture and tried to find prophecies that Jesus could fulfill. It just so happened this one was a mistake.

Going on with that, there is a logical reason for the story besides that. It was considered in ancient times that if someone had an important life, their birth should also reflect that. That is why Augustus, Alexander the Great, even Buddha all had these miraculous stories created about their birth. We see those as myths later attributed to a real person, and thus, the same should be done with Jesus.

And even further, the earliest Gospel that we have starts where it logical should, at the part of the life of Jesus that was considered important. It is logical to assume that the virgin birth stories, which contradict each other, arose after the fact and were attached to the life of Jesus in the same manner that the birth story of Augustus was attached to his. Strike two.

Finally, the thing you said about Bethlehem is just really stretching it. The reason Jesus was said to be born in Bethlehem is because it was supposed to be the home town of David, probably the greatest King of Israel according to the Jews. It was to show that Jesus was of royal lineage. It was probably made up for that reason. There is every reason to assume that Jesus was born in Nazareth. Strike three.

As for your Hercules comment earlier on, it really is moot. I never said that Jesus existed before Hercules. Honestly, when it comes down to it though, you need to do some more research.
 

dogsgod

Well-Known Member
As for the story of the virgin, look at Augustus. Jesus was born during the reign of Augustus, who was considered the son of a god. He supposedly was born or a virgin by a miraculous birth, where his mother was impregnated by a god. Would you consider Augustus to be fictional then? Not at all.
:facepalm:
Holy **** Sherlock. Unlike Jesus and Superman there is a detailed historical record that remains surrounding Augustus once the fabulous legends of him are put aside.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
As for the story of the virgin, look at Augustus. Jesus was born during the reign of Augustus, who was considered the son of a god. He supposedly was born or a virgin by a miraculous birth, where his mother was impregnated by a god. Would you consider Augustus to be fictional then? Not at all.
:facepalm:
Holy **** Sherlock. Unlike Jesus and Superman there is a detailed historical record that remains surrounding Augustus once the fabulous legends of him are put aside.
And we have a detailed historical record for Jesus. You simply dismiss it because you would rather believe shoddy research. We have four writing detailing the ministry of a Jewish peasant. We have Josephus mentioning this same peasant. Then we have Paul, mentioning this same peasant. Key points here, Jesus was a Jewish peasant, someone who meant very little in that world.

And if we put aside the legends of Jesus, basically the virgin birth (which also is apparent in Augustus), and his resurrection, there isn't too much other legend. A few miracles here and there are expected from a faith healer and a community that had preconceived ideas of faith healers. But then again, I guess someone like Richard Carrier, who has been shown time and time again to be not the most credible person, has to be better. :rolleyes:
 

Zadok

Zadok
One of the earliest Christ types is Zoroaster. Even Baal had G-d as his father and a mortal mother. The idea of the birth of a demig-d is not new even to the era of Jesus. We can speculate forever about legends and if there is any connection to actual events. The main point I would like to make is that the concept of the Son of G-d coming to live on earth transcends through much of antiquity and is even found prevalent in ancient America.

Perhaps many dismiss the concept without realization of the effect that such a doctrine had in the development of civilization. No one should doubt the importance of the idea. Perhaps dismissing the idea as unneeded and unbeneficial will not have the results many proponents of such a dismissal think.

Zadok
 
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