fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
The logical answer would be to show why they are false gods. Talking about something does not mean one supports it or advocates it.Why would god speak of other gods like Zeus when he is a jealous god?
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Jesus story isn't original
- Thread starter ninerbuff
- Start date
ZooGirl02
Well-Known Member
Just look at Horus story, or even Heracles of mythology. Man-gods with fathers who were gods. Both suffered or were put to tests. Both died and were resurrected to be gods or be with their fathers. And all this was written before the bible. Great copy catting by the selected authors of the bible.
Read these articles. They provide good refutations of your objections:
Evidence for Jesus and Parallel Pagan "Crucified Saviors" Examined
All About Horus: An Egyptian Copy of Christ? Response to Zeitgeist movie
logician
Well-Known Member
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
And yet you don't try better?
logician
Well-Known Member
This sentence is grade schoolish. LOL
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Still no valid arguments? Didn't expect anything else from you.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Then why did you copy a parallel list that contains inaccuracies as your evidence?
Why did you ignore what I wrote, too? This seems to be a common occurrence whenever I find fault in the arguments that you provide.
ninerbuff
godless wonder
The stories of Horus and Heracles came before jesus "biography". jesus story can't be copied if it wasn't original to begin with.
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fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
The thing is though, it wasn't copied in the first place. Odion did a very wonderful job of showing this.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
..and?
It's artwork. So the artists copied different styles, that doesn't affect the message. Copied art doesn't mean Jesus did not exist, likewise neither does original artwork mean Jesus existed.
(Japanese Mary and Jesus. Looks awesome.)
It's just art; art doesn't affect his existence or not. Just shows the makers Christianized famous Pagan pictures, or drew inspiration from them. Likewise, his existence does not matter to me since he is not an important or even relevant person within Hinduism, but I just thought I'd point out this out.
It's artwork. So the artists copied different styles, that doesn't affect the message. Copied art doesn't mean Jesus did not exist, likewise neither does original artwork mean Jesus existed.
(Japanese Mary and Jesus. Looks awesome.
)It's just art; art doesn't affect his existence or not. Just shows the makers Christianized famous Pagan pictures, or drew inspiration from them. Likewise, his existence does not matter to me since he is not an important or even relevant person within Hinduism, but I just thought I'd point out this out.
dogsgod
Well-Known Member
So? The gospels are just art, literary works of art...and?
It's artwork. So the artists copied different styles, that doesn't affect the message. Copied art doesn't mean Jesus did not exist, likewise neither does original artwork mean Jesus existed.
(Japanese Mary and Jesus. Looks awesome.
It's just art; art doesn't affect his existence or not. Just shows the makers Christianized famous Pagan pictures, or drew inspiration from them. Likewise, his existence does not matter to me since he is not an important or even relevant person within Hinduism, but I just thought I'd point out this out.
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fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Here is where your idea fails. You were referring to art work. Art work done much after the fact, and that does not portray the ideas that were in the Bible. So what you've shown is that artists borrow ideas from other artists. Not a surprise here.So? The gospels are just art, literary works of art.
Also, can you find any place in the Gospels that it says that Jesus had a halo? Can you find any place that it said that Jesus carried a lamb? No, because they were never mentioned.
Politesse
Amor Vincit Omnia
You know that the motif of the good shepherd is a reference to the Hebrew Scriptures, right? And yes, shepherd-as-king was a common motif in the Ancient Near East even when those scriptures were compiled, but it far, far predates the Asclepius cult.
And the claim that Jesus and Mary must be copied from someone else strikes me as kind of silly. Of course mothers and children are common elements in mythology. This is because we all have mothers, not because we are taking crib notes from Caravaggio. Similarly, "Goddesses give blessings to people" seems like a pretty simple and obvious notion that one needn't copy to acquire.
Now in the case of the Jesus-as-Apollo and Mary-as-Hera statuary, the imitation was entirely conscious on the part of the author, just not meaningful the way you are implying. I may portray George Washington as Seneca, but that does not mean that I got the idea of George Washington from Seneca, or that I think the two men are the same, or that the whole American Revolution was a myth "stolen" from the pages of De Clementia.
And the claim that Jesus and Mary must be copied from someone else strikes me as kind of silly. Of course mothers and children are common elements in mythology. This is because we all have mothers, not because we are taking crib notes from Caravaggio. Similarly, "Goddesses give blessings to people" seems like a pretty simple and obvious notion that one needn't copy to acquire.
Now in the case of the Jesus-as-Apollo and Mary-as-Hera statuary, the imitation was entirely conscious on the part of the author, just not meaningful the way you are implying. I may portray George Washington as Seneca, but that does not mean that I got the idea of George Washington from Seneca, or that I think the two men are the same, or that the whole American Revolution was a myth "stolen" from the pages of De Clementia.
ZooGirl02
Well-Known Member
You know, I really have no idea if the story of Jesus is a myth or not. I do believe that he was a real person and that he was a good teacher. I don't agree with all of his teachings or at least all of the teachings that he supposedly taught but I do believe he was a good man. Of course, he did have flaws though. I mean, if he didn't, he wouldn't have overturned the tables in the temple. To me, that seems like rage. Some would say that this rage was justified but I don't believe it was. I mean, if he really didn't like the money changers and such in the temple then why didn't he just come up with some sort of peaceful situation? I mean, he very well could have injured someone by turning over the tables and such like he seems to have done.
That said, it does seem that there are a great many parallels between the Biblical story of Jesus and the myths of other religions. Of course, this could just be coincidence. I don't really know. I know that earlier I expressed disbelief in this but I have been considering it since then and I'll be honest, I don't really know.
That said, I highly doubt that Jesus actually ever performed miracles. I personally am very skeptical of miracles.
That said, it does seem that there are a great many parallels between the Biblical story of Jesus and the myths of other religions. Of course, this could just be coincidence. I don't really know. I know that earlier I expressed disbelief in this but I have been considering it since then and I'll be honest, I don't really know.
That said, I highly doubt that Jesus actually ever performed miracles. I personally am very skeptical of miracles.
dogsgod
Well-Known Member
Jesus turned tables over in the temple and Jesus did not turn tables over in the temple, it all depends which author you are reading. Luke has Jesus return to the temple every day to teach. He merely drove them out of the temple with what he had to say. How's that for artistic license? BTW, the story is myth, written on theological grounds. It's written in classic story fashion, rather than as documented facts and opinions.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
I'm going to paraphrase something you stated in another thread. You've told us your opinion, but now it's time to back it up with some facts.