Jesus vs the New Testament

[sooda]

The thing is, tribal lineage goes through the male line only.

OK.. I get that its specific to tribal lineage.

 

[sooda]

I usually call the 'the religion of Jesus', the religion He referred to, in other words. Since it's different from what people know of as Judaism.

We know what Jesus taught, where it differs from Judaism.

Judaism in the Second Temple Period
The second temple period spans about six hundred years, beginning in the late sixth century BCE and ending with the destruction of the Jerusalem temple by the Romans in 70 CE.

Throughout much of this period, Jews lived—and early Judaism developed—under foreign rule: first under the Persians (538–332 BCE), then under the Hellenistic kingdoms created in the aftermath of Alexander the Great's conquest (332–63 BCE), and finally under Roman rule (63 BCE–70 CE and beyond).

Second Temple Judaism

 

[PruePhillip]

Anti-Semites have levied many absurd charges against Jews, but I don't think we've ever been accused of being dumb. Actually, we get accused of the reverse: being devilishly clever.

What do you mean we couldn't write? What do you mean we didn't have our own language? (In addition to Hebrew, there was Yiddish in northern and eastern Europe, and Ladino in the Spanish region).

Jews have excelled in Scholarship. This is because, beginning with the Torah schools set up by the Pharisees to see to it that all Jewish boys knew Torah, Jewish culture has always revolved around reading the sacred texts and rationally arguing about them. This has given us skills that transferred easily to other vocations.

I didn't say this. Some who oppose the bible say it.
They say there were no Jews, just Canaanites with the same religion.
They say there was no national identity, no written word, no Jewish
language - nothing. But bit by bit each claim has been falsified.

 

[PruePhillip]

You know, if Joseph wasn't really Jesus' dad, then he didn't have a patrilineal line to David, meaning he wasn't of the tribe of Judah. You can't have it both ways.

Yes, you can have it both ways. Joseph was Jesus' father "as was supposed."
But Joseph was symbolic of the House of David. This was understood by all
who believed the Virgin Mary account. No matter who Joseph was didn't really
matter as Jesus said God was his father. But Jesus was born into the house
of David.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I usually call the 'the religion of Jesus', the religion He referred to, in other words. Since it's different from what people know of as Judaism.

We know what Jesus taught, where it differs from Judaism.

It does not differ from Judaism. It's simply a form of Judaism that existed during the Second Temple era. Specifically, he was of the school of Hillel, and argued with those of the school of Shammai, which anyone familiar with the arguments in the Talmud would recognize.

 

[PruePhillip]

Of course it was Christian.. The Reformation wasn't until the 16th century.

You need to define Christian. What the Catholics did was practice a form
of pagan, temple worship, idol worship, world loving religion with Mary
Queen of Heaven as its figurehead. That wasn't Jesus - not what he
taught and not what his church lived.

 

[Desert Snake]

It does not differ from Judaism. It's simply a form of Judaism that existed during the Second Temple era. Specifically, he was of the school of Hillel, and argued with those of the school of Shammai, which anyone familiar with the arguments in the Talmud would recognize.

It clearly does differ from judaism. Read the book of Matthew, ketuvim in judaism, is prophecy in Jesus religion.
Aside from other things, like the inferred solar calendar

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, you can have it both ways. Joseph was Jesus' father "as was supposed."
But Joseph was symbolic of the House of David. This was understood by all
who believed the Virgin Mary account. No matter who Joseph was didn't really
matter as Jesus said God was his father. But Jesus was born into the house
of David.

Sorry, but a child is not of the tribe of a foster father or adopted father. So if Joseph was not Jesus' actual father, then Jesus was not of the tribe of Judah, but in fact had no tribal status.

 

[sooda]

I didn't say this. Some who oppose the bible say it.
They say there were no Jews, just Canaanites with the same religion.
They say there was no national identity, no written word, no Jewish
language - nothing. But bit by bit each claim has been falsified.

The modern consensus among scholars is that the Israelites were Canaanites who peacefully left areas under direct control of the coastal cities and migrated inland to the mountainous hinterland just before 1200 BCE.

This seems to have been a time of economic decline throughout the eastern Mediterranean, and it is believed that subsistence farming in the hinterland offered better prospects than producing farm produce in the richer farmlands of the coast and valleys at a time when the townspeople could no longer afford to purchase that produce.

Thus, the Israelites really were Canaanites, but not all Canaanites were Israelites.

The legend of the Exodus arose much later, when the Hebrew people began to develop epic stories about their glorious past.

Were the Canaanites Israelites

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It clearly does differ from judaism. Read the book of matthew, ketuvim in judaism, is prophecy in Jesus religion.
Aside from other things, like the inferred solar calendar

At this point, I can only say I don't understand what you are saying. I've read the book of Matthew. So? What does that have to do with the Ketuvim(the writings)? There were many messianic cults in Jesus day, all part of Second Temple Judaism (much like how the Lubavitchers are the messianics of today's Judaism). Messianic cults are well known for having esoteric understanding of the texts. It's one of the things that puts them outside of the mainstream, but they are still part of Judaism. Jesus did not try to start a new religion. He tried to bring Jews back to the essence of Judaism (which he believed was the school of Hillel halakha).

 

[sooda]

It clearly does differ from judaism. Read the book of Matthew, ketuvim in judaism, is prophecy in Jesus religion.
Aside from other things, like the inferred solar calendar

Jesus was born into a family of practicing Jews dedicated to Judaism. As prescribed in the Torah, he was circumcised on the eighth day after his birth.

Throughout his life he was thoroughly committed to Judaism, the Torah and Jewish practices.

He prayed in synagogues and taught Torah to “multitudes” of fellow Jews.

And John the Baptist only baptized Jews to purify them for the expected arrival of the Jewish Messiah. All this is stated clearly in the Gospels.

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus was born into a family of practicing Jews dedicated to Judaism. As prescribed in the Torah, he was circumcised on the eighth day after his birth.

Throughout his life he was thoroughly committed to Judaism, the Torah and Jewish practices.

He prayed in synagogues and taught Torah to “multitudes” of fellow Jews.

And John the Baptist only baptized Jews to purify them for the expected arrival of the Jewish Messiah. All this is stated clearly in the Gospels.

What are you on about.
Do you know anything about rabbinical judaism?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

What are you on about.
Do you know anything about rabbinical judaism?

I think he's doing a pretty good job.

Sign me...
A rabbinical Jew.

 

[Desert Snake]

At this point, I can only say I don't understand what you are saying. I've read the book of Matthew. So? What does that have to do with the Ketuvim(the writings)? There were many messianic cults in Jesus day, all part of Second Temple Judaism (much like how the Lubavitchers are the messianics of today's Judaism). Messianic cults are well known for having esoteric understanding of the texts. It's one of the things that puts them outside of the mainstream, but they are still part of Judaism. Jesus did not try to start a new religion. He tried to bring Jews back to the essence of Judaism (which he believed was the school of Hillel halakha).

Its judaic. And im being specific, instead of vague. And the original comment just said 'jew' which is vague. You are saying its vague right here, by writing that commentary.

 

[Desert Snake]

I think he's doing a pretty good job. You are the one I'm concerned about.

Sign me...
A rabbinical Jew.

You arent making sense now.

You dont think 'jew' is vague? You just wrote how it is vague, as you specified different religious beliefs of "jews".

 

[sooda]

You need to define Christian. What the Catholics did was practice a form
of pagan, temple worship, idol worship, world loving religion with Mary
Queen of Heaven as its figurehead. That wasn't Jesus - not what he
taught and not what his church lived.

Paul was the founder of Christianity. Catholics aren't idol worshippers .. Mary is venerated as the mother of Christ. Why should that offend you?

“Queen of Heaven” (Jeremiah 7:18).

This title referred to Ishtar, an Assyrian and Babylonian goddess also called Ashtoreth and Astarte by various other groups.

She was thought to be the wife of the false god Baal, also known as Molech.

At some point Ashtoreth was considered a “consort” of Yahweh .. Some 4000 little clay icons representing Ashtoreth have been excavated in Israel.

 

[Desert Snake]

I think he's doing a pretty good job.

Sign me...
A rabbinical Jew.

Got to say, you might not want to designate yourself as self pontificator of rabbinical judaism.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Its judaic. And im being specific, instead of vague. And the original comment just said 'jew' which is vague. You are saying its vague right here, by writing that commentary.

1. Your post was confusing. I gave you several things that I asked you to clarify. It doesn't help that you simply ignored the request.

2. There is nothing vague about "Jew" if you know what Jew means.

 

[sooda]

What are you on about.
Do you know anything about rabbinical judaism?

Yep.. It pretty much developed AFTER the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD. .. and long after the crucifixion.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You arent making sense now.

You dont think 'jew' is vague? You just wrote how it is vague, as you specified different religious beliefs of "jews".

Because "Jew" is not a religious designation. It's a tribal designation. You are only confused because you are stubbornly refusing to learn what "Jew" means.