Jesus

[FerventGodSeeker]

In the church of England it was once Dogma that it was God's will that only men could be priests priests. this has been over turned and now any priestly office can also be held by women. The Catholic Church may change very slowly but others are not so encumbered. The catholic Church once thought the inquisition was a valid form of control and through it, it was doing God's will.

Or perhaps lack of change is a sign that change has not been needed as much as in other churches that arrived on the scene much later?

I tend not to be dogmatic at all, as a heretic, that is a reasonable position to hold.
I mean Dogmatic in the sense of absolutism. I believe I know some thing about God's nature, but not every detail, Further enlightenment is always possible

What details can we know?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

I understand this, but the decided what got into the Bible what was left out and used the document to explain their interpretation of the Bible.

And yet all of the books of the Bible you accept were placed there by those "fallible men"...how can you accept their content but not their interpretation?

 

[Quiddity]

In the church of England it was once Dogma that it was God's will that only men could be priests priests. this has been over turned and now any priestly office can also be held by women. The Catholic Church may change very slowly but others are not so encumbered. The catholic Church once thought the inquisition was a valid form of control and through it, it was doing God's will.

A thought or a bad decision (Inquisition) is hardly doctrine/dogma.

 

[nutshell]

And yet all of the books of the Bible you accept were placed there by those "fallible men"...how can you accept their content but not their interpretation?

I don't accept the entire content of the Bible and I recognize that they left stuff out. I don't believe the Bible to be the complete Word that God has given us - hence, I don't believe in Sola S.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

I don't accept the entire content of the Bible

What part don't you accept?

 

[nutshell]

What part don't you accept?

Perhaps that should be left for a separate thread - I didn't mean to ditract from the OP so much.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Perhaps that should be left for a separate thread - I didn't mean to ditract from the OP so much.

I told you so!

 

[sojourner]

And those truths represent their interpretation of he Bible.

The interpretation of the Bible by the Body of Christ is what it is. Either you're with us in that interpretation, or you're not. The Bible was written by the Church for the Church. Therefore, the interpretation of such belongs to those who wrote it and to the audience to whom they wrote, that is, the Church. If you want to have a differing interpretation, that's your business.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Jesus lived in heaven as a spirit person before he came to earth. He was God's first creation, and so he is called the "firstborn" Son of God. (Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14) Jesus is the only Son that God created by himself. Jehovah used the prehuman Jesus as his "master worker" in creating all other things in heaven and on earth. (Proverbs 8:22-31; Colossians 1:16, 17) God also used him as His chief spokesman. That is why Jesus is called "the Word."—John 1:1-3; Revelation 19:13. so there we have it , Jeus is Gods son , just as the bible teaches us . many people say that Jesus is God himself , but the bible quite clearly teaches us that Jesus is not God at all, he is Gods first-born son.

It's nice that you leave out that which doesn't make your point such as in John 1 "the Word was with God and the Word was God." Perhaps you also missed the part in the geneologies of Luke where Adam was the son of God.

 

[may]

I believe that the facts surrounding Jesus are and will remain a mystery.

It is important to Love both God and follow the teaching of Jesus.

As the son of God our understanding of his present relationship with God, depend on our interpretation of numerous Biblical passages, and the group of Christians to which we associate our selves.

None of these things make us less or more than other Christians

if we want to get on the road to everlasting life we need to do what Jesus said, JOHN 17;3This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. ................. This does not make us better than others, but it puts us on the right road to everlasting life.That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth. psalm 83;18................ many people forget the true God Jehovah , and even say that Jesus is God ,but this is not a bible teaching . the bible teaches us this .........................................................For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him.john 3;16-17

 

[may]

It's nice that you leave out that which doesn't make your point such as in John 1 "the Word was with God and the Word was God." Perhaps you also missed the part in the geneologies of Luke where Adam was the son of God.

John 3;16 is what the bible teaches us . among many other verses also. and John 1;1 is also inline with the rest of the bible when it is translated correctly, yes there is no contratiction in the bible ,it harmonizes throughout when it is translated correctly.In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God.................................... now thats better now it harmonizes throughout...................yes Jesus sure is a mighty devine one but as the bible tells us there is only one most high.......That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth. psalm 83;18 this Amighty God Jehovah created Jesus , Jesus was the first and only one created by Jehovah alone . as proverbs 8;22 says,Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. yes Jesus was the first-born of creation, but as we all know everything else was created through Jesus

 

[sojourner]

yes there is no contratiction in the bible ,it harmonizes throughout when it is translated correctly.

This just ain't so. There are contradictions in the Bible and creative interpretations cannot fix them. Nor should they have to.

but as the bible tells us there is only one most high

And that Most High has chosen to be manifest in three persons.

this Amighty God Jehovah created Jesus , Jesus was the first and only one created by Jehovah alone

Jesus was begotten, not created.

 

[may]

For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. John 3;16 Jesus was the only one created by his father Jehovah , everything else was created through Jesus He is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of all creation; collossians 1;15 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was. John 17;5 Yes , Jesus was in the heavens with his father Jehovah before he came to the earth , and Jesus was around before the world was created What, therefore, if YOU should behold the Son of man ascending to where he was before? John 6;62Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”John 8;58.........................because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, colossians 1;16-17....................yes Jesus was the first-born of creation , the only one created by his father Jehovah but everything else was created through Jesus

 

[sojourner]

For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. John 3;16 Jesus was the only one created by his father Jehovah , everything else was created through Jesus He is the image of the invisible God, the FIRSTBORN of all creation; collossians 1;15 So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was. John 17;5 Yes , Jesus was in the heavens with his father Jehovah before he came to the earth , and Jesus was around before the world was created What, therefore, if YOU should behold the Son of man ascending to where he was before? John 6;62Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, Before Abraham came into existence, I have been.”John 8;58.........................because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, colossians 1;16-17....................yes Jesus was the first-born of creation , the only one created by his father Jehovah but everything else was created through Jesus

You've just contradicted yourself. Jesus was either begotten (as John 3:16 says) or he was created. The consensus of the historical Church is that he was begotten, not created, based, in part, upon John 3:16: "...only begotten Son..."

 

[Booko]

many people say that Jesus is God himself , but the bible quite clearly teaches us that Jesus is not God at all, he is Gods first-born son.

Well, I'm not a trinitarian, and I don't play on on teevee, but I'd observe that if it were all that clear, there wouldn't be so many millions that still are trinitarians.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

Well, I'm not a trinitarian, and I don't play one on teevee, but I'd observe that if it were all that clear, there wouldn't be so many millions that still are trinitarians.

Excellent point. Trinitarianism is a dogmatic position anyway. It is a way of understanding the nature of God as being the transcendent Father God, the imminent Spirit God, and the revelatory Godman. It is just as easy to understand God as being only transcendent or only imminent. But Christianity has become utterly unique in the sense that it covers all three of these historical religious positions: transcendent, imminent, and human.

 

[may]

You've just contradicted yourself. Jesus was either begotten (as John 3:16 says) or he was created. The consensus of the historical Church is that he was begotten, not created, based, in part, upon John 3:16: "...only begotten Son..."

ONLY-BEGOTTEN​

The Greek word mo·no·ge·nes´ is defined by lexicographers as "single of its kind, only," or "the only member of a kin or kind." (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144) The term is used in describing the relation of both sons and daughters to their parents.
The Scriptures speak of "the only-begotten son" of a widow who lived in the city of Nain, of Jairus’ "only-begotten daughter," and of a man’s "only-begotten" son whom Jesus cured of a demon. (Lu 7:11, 12; 8:41, 42; 9:38) The Greek Septuagint uses mo·no·ge·nes´ when speaking of Jephthah’s daughter, concerning whom it is written: "Now she was absolutely the only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter."—Jg 11:34.​

The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Lo´gos, or Word, "this one was in the beginning with God," even "before the world was." (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the "only-begotten Son" whom his Father sent "into the world."—1Jo 4:9.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

John 3;16 is what the bible teaches us . among many other verses also. and John 1;1 is also inline with the rest of the bible when it is translated correctly, yes there is no contratiction in the bible ,it harmonizes throughout when it is translated correctly.In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God.................................... now thats better now it harmonizes throughout...................yes Jesus sure is a mighty devine one but as the bible tells us there is only one most high.......That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,
You alone are the Most High over all the earth. psalm 83;18 this Amighty God Jehovah created Jesus , Jesus was the first and only one created by Jehovah alone . as proverbs 8;22 says,Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. 23 From time indefinite I was installed, from the start, from times earlier than the earth. yes Jesus was the first-born of creation, but as we all know everything else was created through Jesus

How interesting. You first leave out the verses which contradict you and when confronted with them you call them mistranslations. Perhaps if you just wrote your own text it would agree completely with your ides.

 

[sojourner]

ONLY-BEGOTTEN​

The Greek word mo·no·ge·nes´ is defined by lexicographers as "single of its kind, only," or "the only member of a kin or kind." (Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 1889, p. 417; Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English Lexicon, Oxford, 1968, p. 1144) The term is used in describing the relation of both sons and daughters to their parents.
The Scriptures speak of "the only-begotten son" of a widow who lived in the city of Nain, of Jairus’ "only-begotten daughter," and of a man’s "only-begotten" son whom Jesus cured of a demon. (Lu 7:11, 12; 8:41, 42; 9:38) The Greek Septuagint uses mo·no·ge·nes´ when speaking of Jephthah’s daughter, concerning whom it is written: "Now she was absolutely the only child. Besides her he had neither son nor daughter."—Jg 11:34.​

The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Lo´gos, or Word, "this one was in the beginning with God," even "before the world was." (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the "only-begotten Son" whom his Father sent "into the world."—1Jo 4:9.

This is exactly why Jesus was begotten and not created. We creatures are not "of God's kind." We are in God's image. However, Jesus is "of God's kind." That's because Jesus is Emmanuel -- "God With Us -- God incarnate.

 

[sojourner]

How interesting. You first leave out the verses which contradict you and when confronted with them you call them mistranslations. Perhaps if you just wrote your own text it would agree completely with your ides.

I thought the Ides were of March...not May...