Jesus

[may]

This is exactly why Jesus was begotten and not created. We creatures are not "of God's kind." We are in God's image. However, Jesus is "of God's kind." That's because Jesus is Emmanuel -- "God With Us -- God incarnate.

first-born of creation
Col. 1:15-17, RS: "He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation . . . All things were created through him and for him. He is before all things."
John 17:5, RS: "[In prayer Jesus said:] Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made." (Also John 8:23) yes Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah, Jesus was the first and only one created by Jehovah, everything else was created through Jesus . Yes Jesus was the first-born of creation .

 

[sojourner]

first-born of creation
Col. 1:15-17, RS: "He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation . . . All things were created through him and for him. He is before all things."
John 17:5, RS: "[In prayer Jesus said:] Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made." (Also John 8:23) yes Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah, Jesus was the first and only one created by Jehovah, everything else was created through Jesus . Yes Jesus was the first-born of creation .

In what way does this refute anything I said in my previous post? I said Jesus was born of God. We are not born of God. We are created in God's image. Are we having a semantics problem?

 

[may]

In what way does this refute anything I said in my previous post? I said Jesus was born of God. We are not born of God. We are created in God's image. Are we having a semantics problem?

only -begotten means Jesus was the only one created by Jehovah. Jesus is not God .

 

[sojourner]

Jesus wasn't created by God. Jesus was begotten of God.

God is wholly Other from God's creation (humanity). But Jesus is of the same kind as God, because Jesus was begotten of God.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I thought the Ides were of March...not May...

Beware of them nonetheless.

 

[Doktormartini]

You are a Jehovah's Witness...so I would like to ask you a question! Why are you posting on here when:
http://www.bible.ca/Jw-internet.htm
?

Thank you.

 

[may]

You are a Jehovah's Witness...so I would like to ask you a question! Why are you posting on here when:
http://www.bible.ca/Jw-internet.htm
?

Thank you.

LOL dont be misled by opposers go to to the right links,[FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]1. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]The Internet--How to Avoid the Dangers - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
The Bible can help us to determine the wise use of the Internet.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]2. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Can Internet Dating Really Be Dangerous? - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
Internet dating is popular, but is it a harmless way to find a prospective marriage mate?
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]3. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Internet Pornography--More Than Idle Chatter - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
Extreme caution must be exercised when using a computer chat room.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]4. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Internet Pornography--Is It Really So Harmful? - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
Many think that a casual brush with pornography is harmless. However, the facts show otherwise.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]5. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Why Is Pornography So Widespread? - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
Why is pornography so widespread? Is it really dangerous?
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]6. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Protect Children From Pornography - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
Suggestions to protect your children from the dangers of pornography on the Internet.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]7. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Pornography Goes On-Line - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
What dangers are there in looking at Internet pornography? How can these be avoided?
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]8. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]Protect Yourself and Those You Love - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
The Internet can be a useful tool. But, like most tools, it can be abused.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]9. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]The Pressures Facing Today's Youths - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
Adolescence even under the best of circumstances can be a turbulent time.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]10. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica][SIZE=-1]The Changing World of Electronic Games - Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site
Are all electronic games harmless entertainment, or are there risks involved?[/SIZE][/FONT]

Jehovahs people are warned of the dangers on the internet , but it does not mean the internet is banned ,

 

[may]

Jesus wasn't created by God. Jesus was begotten of God.

God is wholly Other from God's creation (humanity). But Jesus is of the same kind as God, because Jesus was begotten of God.

According to the customary meaning of "firstborn," it indicates that Jesus is the eldest in Jehovah’s family of sons
Jesus is shown to be a created being, part of the creation produced by God
Compare Proverbs 8:22, where, as many Bible commentators agree, the Son is referred to as wisdom personified. According to RS, NE, and JB, the one there speaking is said to be "created.")

 

[sojourner]

According to the customary meaning of "firstborn," it indicates that Jesus is the eldest in Jehovah’s family of sons
Jesus is shown to be a created being, part of the creation produced by God
Compare Proverbs 8:22, where, as many Bible commentators agree, the Son is referred to as wisdom personified. According to RS, NE, and JB, the one there speaking is said to be "created.")

Because the rest of us are "born" into God's family at baptism.

However, if the Son was with the Father before God began to create the universe (which would include heaven...where the Son was with the Father...then the Son existed outside of creation...hence, not created...not part of creation. He was begotten -- not made.

 

[may]

Because the rest of us are "born" into God's family at baptism.

However, if the Son was with the Father before God began to create the universe (which would include heaven...where the Son was with the Father...then the Son existed outside of creation...hence, not created...not part of creation. He was begotten -- not made.

yes ,the son existed before all the other things were created , because every thing else was created through Jesus .
That Jehovah was truly the Father or Life-Giver to this firstborn Son and, hence, that this Son was actually a creature of God is evident from Jesus’ own statements. He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, "I live because of the Father." According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57
THE Bible calls Jesus the "only-begotten Son" of God. (John 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9) Trinitarians say that since God is eternal, so the Son of God is eternal. But how can a person be a son and at the same time be as old as his father?
So Jesus, the only-begotten Son, had a beginning to his life. And Almighty God can rightly be called his Begetter, or Father, in the same sense that an earthly father, like Abraham, begets a son. (Hebrews 11:17) Hence, when the Bible speaks of God as the "Father" of Jesus, it means what it says—that they are two separate individuals. God is the senior. Jesus is the junior—in time, position, power, and knowledge.

 

[James the Persian]

Trinitarians say that since God is eternal, so the Son of God is eternal. But how can a person be a son and at the same time be as old as his father?

Eternal does not mean a really long time, it means no time at all. Time is of no relevance, so when you talk of the relationship between two beings in eternity, age has no sense whatsoever.

The heresy of Arius (which is what you follow) is, as is almost always the case with theological and Christological heresies, directly attributable to trying to rationalise the Divine in human terms. The thing is that God is way too big to put in a box like that, He is uncontainable by human rationality (as your confusion about eternity demonstrates only too well) and so certain aspects of Revelation must remain as Mystery. In effect, you can't understand how what God reveals about Himself can be true so you reduce His stature from Divine Creator to some form of transcendant human. Your second sentence as quoted above is telling in this regard, precisely because God isn't a person - He's God.

The only unique aspect to the JW attempt to cast God in man's image is that it has been acompanied by an attempt to rewrite Scripture in the Watchtower society's image. Whatever you say, the New World Translation is a deliberate corruption of the text to compliment pre-existing JW theology, not even close to an accurate translation, and the plain text of the Bible, in whatever language you care to read it in, does not support your doctrines.

James

 

[may]

the plain text of the Bible, in whatever language you care to read it in, does not support your doctrines.

James

manmade doctrines are made up by men ,that is why Jehovahs witnesses, stick only to bible teaching . the trinity is a made up manmade doctrine , but the bible teaches the following .............

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,​

You alone are the Most High over all the earth.psalm 83;18
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. John 3;16-17.................... many people down through the centuries have been misled by the manmade trinity doctrine , but after all, the bible did foretell this falling away from true worship . so it was to be expected really . if we stick to the bible we cant go wrong .

 

[astarath]

manmade doctrines are made up by men ,that is why Jehovahs witnesses, stick only to bible teaching . the trinity is a made up manmade doctrine , but the bible teaches the following .............

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,​

You alone are the Most High over all the earth.psalm 83;18
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. John 3;16-17.................... many people down through the centuries have been misled by the manmade trinity doctrine , but after all, the bible did foretell this falling away from true worship . so it was to be expected really . if we stick to the bible we cant go wrong .

In all actuality I agree (paritially) well i feel that the canonized and docetered texts of the bible hold some inherent truth. I feel moreso that the true message is all that can be found in the NT because to much of at his been altered or changed by man refer to Robert Ehrman's "misquoting Jesus" As well the epistles and acts of Paul are fabricated nonsense. The man is a liar and a hypocrite and as such should be worthy of love but not of the position of apostle. His teaching's hold no integrity and so it is hard to assign them merit. The gospels both canonized and non-canonized are the steadfast word of God and as such are infallible and can be trusted however the man made dogma and doctrine surrounding Pauline Christianity are misleading and even dangerous to the quest for truth

 

[may]

In all actuality I agree (paritially) well i feel that the canonized and docetered texts of the bible hold some inherent truth. I feel moreso that the true message is all that can be found in the NT because to much of at his been altered or changed by man refer to Robert Ehrman's "misquoting Jesus" As well the epistles and acts of Paul are fabricated nonsense. The man is a liar and a hypocrite and as such should be worthy of love but not of the position of apostle. His teaching's hold no integrity and so it is hard to assign them merit. The gospels both canonized and non-canonized are the steadfast word of God and as such are infallible and can be trusted however the man made dogma and doctrine surrounding Pauline Christianity are misleading and even dangerous to the quest for truth

In view of his faithfulness in copying Christ’s example, the apostle Paul could say: "Become imitators of me." (1Co 4:16; 11:1; Php 3:17)

 

[sojourner]

manmade doctrines are made up by men ,that is why Jehovahs witnesses, stick only to bible teaching .

If Jesus is human, as you seem to indicate, then Jesus' doctrines are also "made up by man." Since the Bible was written by human beings, it, also, presents us with doctrines that are "made up by men."

The Church is the Body of Christ on earth. Therefore, the Church speaks for Christ. One can put whatever kind of label one wishes on the source of doctrine, but doctrine is of Christ, because the Church is of Christ.

 

[may]

If Jesus is human, as you seem to indicate, then Jesus' doctrines are also "made up by man."
.

Jesus was in the heavens with his father Jehovah , before he was born out of a woman , and everything that Jesus taught was from his father Jehovah . so Jesus had the best one to learn from.
because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent meJohn 6;38
God’s firstborn Son, as His first student, was taught to do his Father’s will. (Proverbs 8:22-30; John 8:28) In turn, Jesus indicated that myriads of humans would be taught by his Father. What are the prospects for those of us who learn from God? Jesus said: "It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by Jehovah.’ Everyone that has heard from the Father and has learned comes to me. . . . Most truly I say to you, He that believes has everlasting life."—John 6:45-47.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus was in the heavens with his father Jehovah , before he was born out of a woman , and everything that Jesus taught was from his father Jehovah . so Jesus had the best one to learn from.
because I have come down from heaven to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent meJohn 6;38
God’s firstborn Son, as His first student, was taught to do his Father’s will. (Proverbs 8:22-30; John 8:28) In turn, Jesus indicated that myriads of humans would be taught by his Father. What are the prospects for those of us who learn from God? Jesus said: "It is written in the Prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by Jehovah.’ Everyone that has heard from the Father and has learned comes to me. . . . Most truly I say to you, He that believes has everlasting life."—John 6:45-47.

So then...what doctrine can be said to be "manmade?" If the Apostolic Fathers learned from Jesus, who learned from the Father; and their successors learned from them...and we, in turn, learn from them...are we not all really learning God's doctrine, as it has been given to us through God's Church -- the Body of Christ on earth? using this logic, the only doctrine that can be seen to be "manmade," is the doctrine that falls outside that propagated by the historic Episcopate (who learned it from Jesus himself)...which would include JW doctrine (as it differs from orthodoxy).

 

[UnityNow101]

If Jesus was indeed in Heaven with the Father before His emergence in the flesh, then why has God always emphatically declared that there is no God besides Him? I just don't see how God would change. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

 

[may]

If Jesus was indeed in Heaven with the Father before His emergence in the flesh, then why has God always emphatically declared that there is no God besides Him? I just don't see how God would change. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

God hasnt changed , there is only one true God and it is Jehovah psalm 83;18 and Jesus is Gods first-born son that Jehovah sent to the earth ,John 3;16-17 .Jehovah has always been the true God and always will be . and listening to Jesus is what Jehovah wants us to do .
(Luke 9:35) And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him."
"Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: ‘This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.’"—MATTHEW 3:17. Jesus is not the true God , but he is like God because everything that Jesus does is what Jehovah would do . yes Jesus was the greatest teacher , he was taught by the most high.
Showing that he was God’s Word, or Spokesman, Jesus said to his Jewish listeners: "What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality."—Joh 7:16, 17; compare Joh 12:50; 18:37.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Finally someone who understands this fact of the Bible. :yes:

Your are correct.

IT IS A FACT OF THE BIBLE.....


Dare I say.....and the Bible only....