rosends
Well-Known Member
Again, no you haven't. Why do you keep insisting that you have any clue about the Jewish understanding of the afterlife?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Jewish Afterlife
- Thread starter Jakob
- Start date
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
There is nothing really to discuss as you don't present something from Judaism. Granted this isn't the Judaism DIR so you are free to do so but that doesn't make your POV somewhat representing for Judaism.
Just like I have to endure your weird Film fetish you have to endure Jews telling you that it has nothing to do with Judaism.
Ah yes the Christianity is strong in you.
MARCELLO
Transitioning from male to female
So why don't you reply someone like me who tries to understand?
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
Well a source would be nice.
Belief about the world to come are as diverse as can be.
MARCELLO
Transitioning from male to female
Perhaps Rambam? You know better than me
Princeps Eugenius
Active Member
This is a late christian concept ( around 100CE) not found anywhere in Judaism.
chevron1
Active Member
what about sheol?
Princeps Eugenius
Active Member
Thats in the old testament. Yes: Psalm 16:10. I believe that the Septuagint even uses the word 'Hades' to describe this place.
Princeps Eugenius
Active Member
[/QUOTE]but is not satan's synagogue the same thing as hades? if so, then let's use satan's synagogue because it is more descriptive.
========================
my final installment of the analysis of promised land
if damon's steve butler is gay, then the devil offers him the "promised land" to cure him, if damon will give up the gas company that employs him. the cure though must be a deception because satan is the great deceiver. (2 corinthians 11.3: "as the serpent deceived eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to christ.") once deceived into the promised land, he joins the "synagogue of satan". (revelation 3.9: "behold, i will cause those of the synagogue of satan, who say that they are jews and are not, but lie--i will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that i have loved you.")
the town is false promised land and those within it worship in satan's synagogue. then, the gas company (global crosspower solutions) is god's company come to destroy the abomination. that is damon's purpose: to destroy satan's false promised land and lead its people back to god. god has provided damon with his own solution to homosexuality. while damon works for the gas company, god grants him a female companion: frances mcdormand, who is his company wife, as devoted as a marital wife, his partner as he rises up in the company, who spends more time with him than with her own husband and children, for [h]ouses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the lord." (proverbs 19.14) she is also a christian. therefore, she cannot be his "real" companion wife, because she is already married and he sees her as a co-worker, and because her messiah is jesus. nevertheless, as seen in the picture above, the heads of damon and mcdormand are enclosed in the picture frame on the back wall over a bed, a visual indicator of union. the picture frame has been positioned off center, suggesting an unusual union, a special symbolic marriage.
the gas company is god's company. the company name is "global crosspower" or the power of the cross globally or specially god's christian company. the purpose of the company is to provide "solutions". global's solution for damon's character's homosexuality is a company wife, but that solution isn't satisfactory. when damon's steve butler first meets Alice (his future love interest), she reads him as "married, marketing, with two kids," a family man. he is actually thirty-eight and single and "born to be a singer", a high occupation in this world, although he does not seem to realize it. to persuade matt damon to betray the gas company and thus betray god, the devil must offer him what he truly wants: to be heterosexual and a family man.
why does homo damon's character fall in love with Alice? why is she his "true love"? in the picture above from the trailer, damon and Alice are in a bar. she is standing at the bar and there is a neon pink triangle pointing down on her head. inside that triangle is the letter T. a pink triangle stands for "gay" but the "T" inside can only mean "transgender" as in glbt or "gay lesiban bisexual transgender". damon's character falls in love with alice because she is at the other end of the spectrum of queer world: she was originally a "he".
gus van sant's message is one of hope for gays who want to become straight or heterosexual to meet the requirement of leviticus, because homosexuality is sinful. therefore, if you betray god, satan will give you what you want. damon betrays god by rejecting his mission and instead preserves satan's false promised land and so its prisoners, the citizens of the town who are trapped in false promised land, are not saved, are not delivered to salvation. (john 14.6: jesus saith unto him, i am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the father, but by me.") moreover, the judaic messiah forgets himself, forsakes god's realm and joins satan's false promised land to receive his reward.
for gays, if you betray god, satan will offer you a hetero life in a town that epitomizes deception: transsexual utopia, which is the devil's utopia because it is deception like the snake's temptation of eve in the torah. ("the serpent said to the woman, you surely will not die! for god knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like god, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3.4-5.) in the world of torah, the deception is unclean as described in leviticus 21.17-20:
in american history, the name alice has particular significance in religious study. alice is the namesake of alice young, the first person to be hanged for witchcraft in the colonies. (exodus 22.18 "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.") in the movie, she represents satanic goat-headed baphomet in human form as the perfect mate for matt damon's character. subtle reference to baphomet was first given at the beginning of the movie when matt damon and frances mcdormand comment on the unusual size of the goats in the town - as big as horses. baphomet is the transgender god of bisexuals, because he has the body parts of both sexes and has sexual intercourse with both sexes.
van sant's message to jews is more obscure. could it be that he stands behind jesus as the true messiah for all the abrahamic faiths? (isaiah 7.14: "therefore the lord himself shall give you a sign; behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name immanuel.") many jews do not believe in jesus, because they fear false prophets. (deuteronomy 18.20: "but the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which i have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.") "jews for jesus" believe in jesus as their true messiah. the messiah discussed in isaiah 53 fits the description of jesus who died for the sins of mankind. (isaiah 53.4-5: "surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows... but he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities" and romans 4.25: "he was delivered over to death for our sins...".) that's why "promised land" is about the jewish afterlife: it is about recognizing the true messiah in jesus and jesus leading you to the real promised land if you will recognize and follow him.
Youre confusing a film with what the bible teaches. The new tastement says that the Jews are a synagogue of satan because they dont accept Jesus to be the Christ or to be the Son of God. This term, which is found in the bible, has absolutely nothing to do with the afterlife. It refers to Jews as being lost and an unbelieving nation. Perhaps the Jews go to hell after they die because they dont accept Jesus but as i said already its usual not connected to an afterlife.
Hades and Sheol are an Old Testament thing while Heaven and Hell are a New Testament thing.
Being "ethnically" Jewish and Christian(defined belief in Jesus of Nazareth as the son of god and redeemer of mankind, otherwise go to hell, directly to hell, do not pass go, do not collect 200 shekels blah blah blah) is certainly possible, but religiously, you only get to claim one. You could argue that it's true by virtue of Christianity being a Jewish offshoot, but even then you don't say "Jewish Christian", that'd be like saying "Feline Lion". We know it's a cat because it's a ****ing lion.
But in regards to actual use of belief systems, no. You do not get to be a Jew and believe the Messiah has already come back. Nor do you get to be a Christian and believe the Messiah hasn't already come, you're just waiting for the return. That defeats the point of both. These terms are mutually exclusive in that regard.
There is no such thing as a Schrodinger's Christjew who exists in a state of belief and not-belief in Jesus of Nazareth until observed by an outside force
chevron1
Active Member
but is not christianity an offshoot of judaism? then is it not a christjew by schrodinger?
Gonna need to narrow it down a bit there, friend.
..Alright, alright, that was in bad taste. But that's never stopped me before.
I was making a joke referring to Schrodinger's Cat, a quantum physics question where a cat is locked in a box with some manner of contained radioactive material, the shielding is broken, and until we open the box to observe the cat is in a state of both alive-and-dead, because there's no way to know otherwise.
Princeps Eugenius
Active Member
Yeah exactly, the Christians regarded only those who accepted the 'fortold' Messiah, in the Jewish scriptures (ie. Jesus), as true Jews. Anybody else was a satanist to them. Pagans were satanists, jews were satanists, buddhists were satanists anyone but the Christians.
Akivah
Well-Known Member
That phrase does not appear in the Hebrew bible. Thus, it has nothing to do with Judaism. Afaik, it appears in the book of Christians, ergo it is a Christian concept, not Judaism.
Princeps Eugenius
Active Member
why refer it by a later christian term when you can refer to it by an original term?
Akivah
Well-Known Member
The real question is why are you using Christian terms, concepts, and understandings, and calling it Judaism?
rosends
Well-Known Member
so Gus Van Sant wants Jews to accept Christianity and he tries to persuade them by USING Christianity?
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
You do know that proselytizing is forbidden on RF?
rosends
Well-Known Member
There are so many levels on which this makes no sense.
1. "Jewish thinking world"?
2. "gone to sleep"?
3. "no Jews in this promised land"?
4. "stand up for their messiah"?
5. "lured into an idyllic life"?
I mean, I speak the language pretty well. I have a fairly extensive vocabulary and I know what the words mean. But in the ways you use them and the references you make, they are absolutely incomprehensible.
rosends
Well-Known Member
See, here's the problem Ralph. You talk about Jews in the "promised land" because you have an image of what that means. But your image is not that of Judaism so your view about no Jews' being there is meaningless. Then you say that Jews "must think about afterlife and no one seems to know how to answer." Fact is, if you ask a question about the Jewish views of the afterlife, there are plenty of answers. You just refuse to ask and accept that Judaism has a view that is unrelated to anything you think. And happily, at that. The you assert that this thread is about "why there is no promised land in real life" but that's not what this thread is about at all. This is called "Jewish Afterlife" and in Judaism, such a thing exists. You can't make some claim about it if you know nothing about it. And you know nothing about it.
And that final line in bold about Jews being primed for something just shows how little you know about Judaism.
Now, if you have a specific question, and are willing to accept answers from actual Jews, try to focus, and ask instead of insisting that you know. Because you don't.