Jewish Afterlife

[rosends]

really? how do i know you are an "actual" jew? hmmmm? i know real jews who are interested in the afterlife when i see them. no one here seems to be interested. why haven't anyone answered poor marcello who is begging for help from "real jews" about the afterlife, about the messiah who will lead the real jews to afterlife?

unless you are saying that the real jews don't need a "jewish messiah". if that's what you're saying, then let's discuss.

You don't know I'm an actual Jew. We haven't met. Maybe, you shouldn't be trying to either learn or present information on an anonymous and virtual space? I mean, you could look me up and se all sorts of info, but what would that prove? Maybe there is an elaborate hoax involved, including institutions, the government and my mom...

I haven't seen a clear question from Marcello, and why would one think that the messiah would lead anyone to the afterlife? That's not a particularly Jewish idea.

Do you really want to have a protracted discussion in which I explain the various stages of experience after death (because the concept of "after life" doesn't really narrow anything down)? Are you talking the next world, the resurrection, the messianic era? What? There are plenty of resources I could point you to online, but you would have to believe that the authors of them were Jews and you may not do that.

 

[Flankerl]

is that because there are no more jews in the promised land who will stand up for judaism, not even in the land of milk and honey?

I would answer if I had the slightest clue of what you actually mean.

 

[MARCELLO]

You don't know I'm an actual Jew. We haven't met. Maybe, you shouldn't be trying to either learn or present information on an anonymous and virtual space? I mean, you could look me up and se all sorts of info, but what would that prove? Maybe there is an elaborate hoax involved, including institutions, the government and my mom...

I haven't seen a clear question from Marcello, and why would one think that the messiah would lead anyone to the afterlife? That's not a particularly Jewish idea.

.

I would answer if I had the slightest clue of what you actually mean.

My descent questions remain unanswered. That's what he is saying.

 

[rosends]

My descent questions remain unanswered. That's what he is saying.

Clearly, I missed your question. Please reask it and I will do my best to address it with my limited knowledge.

 

[MARCELLO]

Clearly, I missed your question. Please reask it and I will do my best to address it with my limited knowledge.

My message #132 on this topic

 

[rosends]

When I was trying judaism, from chabad.org, I remember sth like this: there are levels in jewish world to come ( i still like to call it like this) The jewish prophets are on the 1 st floor,then comes the jews or gentile prophets,then gentiles,etc. The gehonnom is not a hell for ever,just a punishment department of the next world.

So,where to put jewish nonbelievers on these levels,among jews or among gentiles?

I'm assuming that you mean this message (9:32, but message 119).

The idea you present is one I have never heard. There are ideas in Judaism of levels in heaven, but they are not common. The idea is that after death, if the soul deserves to bask in God's glory, it does, or else it needs time to be refined and prepared to be in God's glory. Non-Jews who have followed the 7 laws of Noach attain a "high" level" and Jews who failed at following Jewish laws have to spend some time getting "re-educated" and prepared for being with God.

 

[chevron1]

I mean, you could look me up and se all sorts of info, but what would that prove? Maybe there is an elaborate hoax involved, including institutions, the government and my mom...

i wasn't asking you to prove you are a jew, i was saying do "real jews" need a messiah?

Do you really want to have a protracted discussion in which I explain the various stages of experience after death (because the concept of "after life" doesn't really narrow anything down)?

yes i do, and why do you think the concept of "after life" does not narrow anything down? afterlife is the life after death, so if you give the "various stages of experience after death" you automatically narrow it down.

Are you talking the next world, the resurrection, the messianic era? What? There are plenty of resources I could point you to online, but you would have to believe that the authors of them were Jews and you may not do that.

i am talking the next world, but if you want to talk resurrection, that too is after life. all of this is important for jewish theology to have its brightest light of day.

 

[rosends]

i wasn't asking you to prove you are a jew, i was saying do "real jews" need a messiah?

How do you define "real Jew" and "need"? Judaism has a messianic concept. It is what it is.

yes i do, and why do you think the concept of "after life" does not narrow anything down? afterlife is the life after death, so if you give the "various stages of experience after death" you automatically narrow it down.

One understanding in Judaism is that the soul is judged immediately after death and then moves into its "next world" of either reward or punishment. Others say that there is a pause and this will all happen later during the advent of the messianic age. There is rampant debate over the a question of physical resurrection vs. only spiritual resurrection, and the question of whether the messianic age is going to be a time of living, or a heavenly time of spiritual existence. There are plenty of websites which go through the options and arguments. If you would like, I can give you some.

 

[chevron1]

There is rampant debate over the a question of physical resurrection vs. only spiritual resurrection, and the question of whether the messianic age is going to be a time of living, or a heavenly time of spiritual existence.

then gus van sant's portrayal of the promised land in his movie the promised land could be the true afterlife?

 

[rosends]

then gus van sant's portrayal of the promised land in his movie the promised land could be the true afterlife?

"could be true" according to whom? Could the depiction in "What Dreams May Come" be "true"? What about "Field of Dreams"? None of them reflects a Jewish view of the afterlife.

 

[chevron1]

"could be true" according to whom? Could the depiction in "What Dreams May Come" be "true"? What about "Field of Dreams"? None of them reflects a Jewish view of the afterlife.

those movies don't have a jewish reference in the title. promised land is a specific jewish concept from torah.

 

[rosends]

those movies don't have a jewish reference in the title. promised land is a specific jewish concept from torah.

Can you show me where in the torah there is the phrase "promised land"?

Also, are you saying

1. Any time a title uses a biblical phrase, it must therefore represent the Jewish view of that concept?
2. Any title reflects the vision of the person who wrote the phrase used for the title?

Is "what dreams may come" Shakespeare's concept of heaven from Hamlet?

3. the Bruce Springsteen's song "Promised Land" is the Jewish view of the afterlife?

 

[chevron1]

Can you show me where in the torah there is the phrase "promised land"?

it's all over genesis and deuteronomy.

 

[rosends]

it's all over genesis and deuteronomy.

Great, show me a verse.

 

[MARCELLO]

As a conclusion no jew knows what will happen to them in the world to come,am I wrong?

 

[rosends]

As a conclusion no jew knows what will happen to them in the world to come,am I wrong?

"Know" is a strong word. We have traditions and a general sense of reward and punishment. But we don't make it a central point to explain the moment by moment, definitive after death experience.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

As a conclusion no jew knows what will happen to them in the world to come,am I wrong?

I can accept this (assuming, of course, a world to come).

 

[chevron1]

Great, show me a verse.

Exodus 6.8

in what dreams may come, the robin williams character is lost to god until he finds his wife who is a woman unto herself because she chose her fate. she reunites with him and continues into heaven. their promised land is the reincarnated land of their love. thats why she is a messiah for chris but not the jewish messiah because she doesnt know the promised land is false promised land.

 

[rosends]

Exodus 6.8

in what dreams may come, the robin williams character is lost to god until he finds his wife who is a woman unto herself because she chose her fate. she reunites with him and continues into heaven. their promised land is the reincarnated land of their love. thats why she is a messiah for chris but not the jewish messiah because she doesnt know the promised land is false promised land.

Ex 6:8?
I don't see the word "promise" let alone the phrase "promised land"

"I will bring you to the land, concerning which I raised My hand to give to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, and I will give it to you as a heritage; I am the Lord.' "

try again.

 

[chevron1]

Ex 6:8?
I don't see the word "promise" let alone the phrase "promised land"

"I will bring you to the land, concerning which I raised My hand to give to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, and I will give it to you as a heritage; I am the Lord.' "

try again.

No, you see the words "raised my hand" and "land" = promised land. Please do not make this into a game as poor anna sciorra in "what dreams may come" had to suffer.