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Jewish Messiah

InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
metis said:
So, besides us, who else if going to solve our problems?
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The prophesied and promised Savior…

For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Luke 2:11

And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 1 John 4:14

My perspective anyway.
 
dybmh

dybmh

ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Jayhawker Soule said:
My pact of friendship."
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The word for friendship is in Proverbs.

איש רעים להתרועע ויש אהב דבק מאח׃

There are men who pretend friendship; and there is a true friend who sticks closer than a brother

You still don't know what Shalom means? Why haven't you looked up the shoresh?
.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
King Phenomenon said:
Is it unrealistic that Jewish people expect the Messiah will establish world peace? Or are they just talking about larger wars not happening, not necessarily a perfect world?
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Let me look at this from two different vantage points.

Let's say I have a more Orthodox understanding of the Tanakh, thinking of it as the Word of God, and that everything in it is literally true. In that case, there is no way someone can claim to be the Messiah without ushering in an era of worldwide peace.

Isaiah 2:4:
"He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore."

Micah 4:3:
"And He shall judge between many peoples, and shall decide concerning strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore."


However, not all religious Jews are so literal. The Conservative movement, of which I am a part, views the messianic era and messiah more figuratively. It emphasizes that it is the work of us humans who will usher in the idyllic messianic age. "The Messiah" is a symbol of that collective effort.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
christos said:
I think whatever the Jewish viewpoint is (I haven’t got enough knowledge on Jewish beliefs, ofcourse there’s lots of wonderful Jews on here)

But I have the oppinion this world will never be perfect
Not in the ethereal, heveanly, divine, sense

We can certainly be better, no wars, one ultimate goal, no fighting, no murder

You can obviously imagine a utopia type world, where we’re all mostly cool with one another

BUT I think dispute, argument, debate, fighting over resources is always going to be a thing, just because we’re material and flawed and have egos and have desires and strive for power or whatever

I can see a mostly peaceful world, but I don’t see a perfect world

And the true is for our future as a multi planetary species, IF we get there
Mars and any other body will be subject to politics, dispute, arguments, resource issues

…Only God is perfect
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I certainly can understand why you say this.

But let me add a bit to mull over. The world is much less violent today than, say, 1000 years ago, when countries were constantly at war and fights and murders rampant. Today, the world has largely figured out that if we want something, it is really much more sensible to simply buy it, than to waste money and lives on a war.

It wasn't too long ago that everyone thought Israel and Iran were going to go to war. Iran launched some 300 drones and missiles at Israel, and Israel. I don't think anyone died, but clearly it was an "act of war" and Israel had all the justification it needed to clobber Iran. What did Israel do? The Israeli airstrike damaged a defensive battery near Natanz, a city in central Iran that is critical to the country’s nuclear weapons program. Again, I don't think anyone died. Despite being bitter enemies with a lot of saber rattling going on, it is very clear that neither country wanted war. Ask yourself this--had this sort of thing happened even 200 years ago, do you think war would have been avoided?

Progress is slow, and it is definitely a 2 steps forward 1 step back kind of thing. But yes, progress is slowly being made.
 
soulsurvivor

soulsurvivor

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
King Phenomenon said:
Is it unrealistic that Jewish people expect the Messiah will establish world peace? Or are they just talking about larger wars not happening, not necessarily a perfect world?
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The Messiah when he comes will be for all humanity, so not just for Jews. And yes, he will help establish world peace, maybe not immediately but in time.
 
Ehav4Ever

Ehav4Ever

Well-Known Member
King Phenomenon said:
Is it unrealistic that Jewish people expect the Messiah will establish world peace? Or are they just talking about larger wars not happening, not necessarily a perfect world?
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A better way of looking at it is like this:
  1. As a result of their being a Torah based leader of the Israeli people, in the land of Israel, who is able to lead the re-establishment of a Torah based nation (complete Torah based national and social infrastructure) the world takes attention to this.
  2. If this said leader, and the Israeli people, are succesful in estblishing the above in a permanant way where it it is clear that the Source of reality / is a) protecting it and b) supporting it, then this causes a certain reaction worldwide.
  3. If it is clear that the above is not a fluke, but that the Source / Creator of reality is ultimately behind it, then given the current technology this becomes worldwide news.
  4. At this point, there are some who may deam this as a turning point and certain conflicts may cease as the reality has changed.
  5. There may be some conflicts that start, in order to test whether what has happened is a fluke or not. If it is proven to not be a fluke, and that the Creator of all things is involved, then at some point those involved in conflicts will have to decide how far they are willing to go against the reality, especially if it is clear that the Source of reality is involved.
  6. At some point, all eyes turn in one direction. If it is clear that the Source of reality is protecting and supporting this Torah based lead in a Torah based nation in Israel, then the "where do we go from here moment starts."
  7. A few directions is:
    • "Now that we all know what caused reality / the universe to exist, we can stop fighting / argueing over that issue. So, let's focus on what means. Some of us need to have a new focus on how the universe works, and now that we know what caused it let's go to the one place we know that has the support of said Source / Creator."
    • "Now that it clear that Source / Creator is exists and we know where to go get some insights, lets take all of our medical, scientific, social, etc. issues that that place and get some insights into how to tackle these issues. We no longer have a need to fight over those issues."
    • "Now that it clear that Source / Creator is exists and we know where to go get some insights, lets take all of our national and territorial disputes to the place where we can get some insights from the One that put this planet in place. Now that we know where get some answers on that, and we know that the opposing side will potentially seek out the support from the Source, and can't go against the Source, let's go and try to resolve these issues at the place where the Creator has put in place for us to see the forest from the trees."
    • "Now that it clear that Source / Creator is exists and we know where to go get some insights, lets take all of our questions about preserving our species and our planet to the one place where can get some insights from the Source of reality which knows better than we do how this planet works."
    • "Now that we have a place to get these insights where they are more clear as to the real root causes and issues, we now can go back home and work on solutions that make more sense and are more beneficial towards our situations."
That is one way of looking at how the Hebrew Tanakh addresses the situation. The problem you will have is the meaning of the word "messiah" in English. Often in English, the word means a "savior." This is not the Jewish understanding. The Jewish understanding of (משיח) is "an appointed leader." I.e. this person leads, in the Torah and teaches Torah, by example. Thus, the world saves itself. This individual, and his sons, are claimed to leaders who are able to get the ball rolling and everyone takes up their positions of duty based on the leadership.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Jewish Messiah

They are still waiting for their Messiah, and none is going to come till doomsday, please, right?
Yes, they rejected the truthful Israelite Messiah- Yeshua son of Maryam aka Mary.

Right?

Regards
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
King Phenomenon said:
Is it unrealistic that Jewish people expect the Messiah will establish world peace? Or are they just talking about larger wars not happening, not necessarily a perfect world?
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Two of the religious groups I was around back in the 70's thought that peace was going to happen soon. One of them was the Born-Again Christians that thought Jesus would be coming any minute. They believe Jesus to be the Jewish Messiah but say that the first time he came wasn't to bring peace. So, he didn't have to fulfill those prophecies of bringing peace. However, in the second coming, he is supposedly going to get rid of Satan and all the evil people and establish "God's" kingdom on Earth.

Didn't happen and still hasn't happen, but considering how bad off the world is, maybe it will happen.

The other group was the Baha'is. And I'm wondering why they haven't posted anything yet. Their prophet claims to be the Jewish Messiah and the return of the spirit of Christ, along with being the return of Krishna, Buddha, and some others.

They say we could have had what they call the "Most Great Peace", but the world essentially rejected him. So, now they say all we can hope for is some "Lesser" peace. But even that they say won't happen until the "old world order" collapses and there's nothing but trials and tribulations. Then, they say all the people will turn to them and follow their prophets teachings on how to live in peace and unity. And that someday, it will lead to the most Great Peace.

So, they too didn't fulfill the Bible prophecies about their guy actually bringing peace. And their plan is more like this...
Jayhawker Soule said:
In my (wholly unorthodox) opinion, the task of establishing world peace is ours alone.
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We've got to do it. With the Born-Again Christian plan, Jesus does it. With the Baha'i plan, we do it by following that plan of theirs.

Considering how things have always been, we can't depend on any religion to do it. We've got to make it happen. Maybe with a little help from taking the best of what the religions have told us to do... like love your neighbor as yourself.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
paarsurrey said:
Jewish Messiah

They are still waiting for their Messiah, and none is going to come till doomsday, please, right?
Yes, they rejected the truthful Israelite Messiah- Yeshua son of Maryam aka Mary.

Right?

Regards
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How religious Jews treat the subject of the Messiah and Messianic age varies. Among the Orthodox, it is much more common to believe in a literal human man who will rule Israel during that idyllic time, the messianic era. However, Conservative Jews like me are more inclined to stress the human component in bringing about that idyllic era and view "the Messiah" as more of a metaphor for that.

What we all reject outright is the Christian idea that the Messiah is God who incarnates and dies for the sins of mankind. I also don't understand why you are connecting the Messiah to "doomsday."
 
Ebionite

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
dybmh said:
Peace comes at the end of days.
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So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end [shall be] the vision.
Daniel 8:17

The burden of the valley of vision. What aileth thee now, that thou art wholly gone up to the housetops?
Isaiah 22:1

And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Isaiah 22:22

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Daniel 12:4

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which [men] deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it [is] sealed:
And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Isaiah 29:11-12

An Angel came to him and asked him to read. Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) replied, "I do not know how to read." The Prophet (ﷺ) added, "Then the Angel held me (forcibly) and pressed me so hard that I felt distressed.
sunnah.com

Sahih al-Bukhari 4953 - Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafseer of the Prophet (pbuh)) - كتاب التفسير - Sunnah.com - Sayings and Teachings of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه و سلم)

Hadith of the Prophet Muhammad (saws) in English and Arabic
sunnah.com sunnah.com

A seal is made by pressing.

Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Quran 33:40, Yusuf Ali
 
Ebionite

Ebionite

Well-Known Member
RabbiO said:
2) No.
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They don't recognise the Messiah because they don't accept that he was cut off.

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Daniel 9:26

He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isaiah 53:8

And YHWH said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.
For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, [which] shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.
Zechariah 11:15-16

The betrayal:

And YHWH said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty [pieces] of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of YHWH.
Zechariah 11:13
 
loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Aren’t the Jewish people awaiting two messiahs? Messiah Ben Joseph and Messiah Ben David? Which one is to establish peace or both?
 
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