Jews and Muslims..friends or enemies?

[Monotheist 101]

Well that question has been answered by the so called and so believed (by those that do believe in it) The Lectures of God. The believers of which are the so called Peaceful! (Read Muslims)

The Lectures very clearly command: OH THOSE THAT BELIEVE! MAKE NO FRIENDS OF THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS! FOR THE FRIENDSHIP OF SOME LEADS TO THE WAYS OF SOME! AND HE AMONGST YOU THAT BEFRIENDS THEM (JEWS AND CHRISTIANS) TODAY SHALL BE COUNTED VERILY AS ONE OF THEM (TOMORROW ON THE DOOMSDAY)! AND GOD INDEED DOES NOT LEAD THE SPREADERS OF DARKNESS (TO BLISS)!

ARABIC TRANSLITERATION: YA AIYYUHALLAZEENA AAMANOU! LAA TATTAKHAZAL YAHUDA WAN NASAARA! AULIYA'U BAA'DIN AULIYAA 'A BAA'D! FAMAN YATAWALLAHU MINKUM FA INNAHU MINHUM! INNALLAH LAA YAHDIL QAUMAZZAALIMEEN!

Thus the Lectures forbid the friendship of Jews and Christians! The only concession of association afforded to Jews and Christians by the Peaceful are that the chaste (Assuaalihaat), Jewish and Christian women that as such can be accepted as brides in marriage by the Peaceful! This concession came in the later stages of the Lectures when Muhammad, seeing the ravishing beauty of Safiya the widow of the slain Jewish chieftain murdered by his band of the Peaceful, fell as prime prize booty to him and he to impress her, offered her proper Peaceful wedding unlike his band of butchers who kept the Jewish women of that defeated Jewish village as their carnal slaves for rape at will and sold after for profit! And his show of a wedding to the Coptic Christian slave girl Mariah who was gifted to him by the Peaceful leader conquering Egypt, to impress of his magnanimity to the Coptics. Prior to these weddings. the Lectures (Surah Al Baqreh) forbade marriage of both Peaceful men and women to infidels like Jews and Christians! That concession (Surah Al Maaideh) still continues the earlier forbidding of marriage by Peaceful females to Jewish and Christian men.

Any friendship thus is not to be seen as REAL between the Peaceful and the Jews and the Christians in the name of the Worshiped the Merciful the Benevolent!

O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for your allies: they are but allies of one another and whoever of you allies himself with them becomes, verily, one of them; behold, God does not guide people who are unjust. (Quran 5:51)
This verse is often quoted to show that Islam is intolerant.
Quran is a complete book of guidance and while studying various issues it should be kept in mind that a particular issue may be discussed over several chapters or several verses in the same chapter. A complete understanding can only be achieved by understanding the whole issue as presented over all the verses and chapters and not by looking at only part of the Quran. God specifically warns us against doing just that, upholding part of the Quran while disregarding the rest.

.. Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do you reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life? - and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For God is not unmindful of what ye do. (Quran 2:85)

To understand the issue of befriending the Jews, Christians or people of any other faith, we have to study all the concerned verses from the Quran collectively.

Let us look at some other verses about this issue. The following two verses regulate relations with any people, regardless of faith:

As for such [of the unbelievers] as do not fight against you on account of [your] faith, and neither drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to behave towards them with full equity: for, verily, God loves those who act equitably. (Quran 60:8)

God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of [your] faith, and drive you forth from your homelands, or aid [others] in driving you forth: and as for those [from among you] who turn towards them in friendship; it is they, they who are truly wrongdoers! (Quran 60:9)

From the above verses, we learn that we are only discouraged from befriending those who fight Muslims because of their religion. Now let's go back to the verse immediately after 5:51, to see if it sheds some further light on the issue.

And yet you can not see how those in whose hearts there is disease vie with one another for their good will (the hostile Jews and Christians), saying [to themselves], "We do fear lest a change of fortune bring us disaster." But God may well bring about good fortune [for the believers] or any [other] event of His own devising, whereupon those [waverers] will be smitten with remorse for the thoughts which they had secretly harboured within themselves- (Quran 5:52)

During the time of the Prophet when the Jews and Christians were in open conflict with the Muslims, there were some Muslims who were more concerned about maintaining there alliances with the Jews and Christians at the expense of the Muslim community. The above verse is referring to such situations where Muslims with doubts in their hearts will ally themselves with the enemy.


Chapter 5 Verse 57 of the Quran makes it clear again, who are not to be taken as friends; O you who believe! take not for friends and protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport,- whether among those who received the Scripture before you, or among those who reject Faith; but remain conscious of God, if you are (truly) believers. (Quran 5:57)

God teaches us throughout the Quran that there are righteous Jews and Christians. As such there is no prohibition for Muslims to be friends with Jews, Christians or people of any other faith who are of good character.

Quranic verses referring to the righteous Jews and Christians:

Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth. (Quran 7:159)

And We caused Jesus, the son of Mary, to follow in the footsteps of those (earlier prophets), confirming the truth of whatever there still remained of the Torah; and We sent him the Gospel, wherein there was guidance and light, confirming the truth of whatever there still remained of the Torah, and as a guidance and admonition unto the God-conscious. (Quran 5:46)

Verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve. (Quran 2:62)

Not all of them are alike: Of the People of the Book are a portion that stand (For the right): They rehearse the Signs of God all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is right, and forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) good works: They are in the ranks of the righteous. (Quran 3:113-114)

And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in God, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to God. They will not sell the Signs of God for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and God is swift in account. (Quran 3:199)


The following verse from the Quran capsulates this issue:

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other (not that you may despise (each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things). (Quran 49:13)


- See more at: IslamiCity.com - Can Muslims be friends with Jews and Christians?

 

[Pastek]

From the above verses, we learn that we are only discouraged from befriending those who fight Muslims because of their religion. Now let's go back to the verse immediately after 5:51, to see if it sheds some further light on the issue.

During the time of the Prophet when the Jews and Christians were in open conflict with the Muslims, there were some Muslims who were more concerned about maintaining there alliances with the Jews and Christians at the expense of the Muslim community. The above verse is referring to such situations where Muslims with doubts in their hearts will ally themselves with the enemy.

Plus Islam accept the mariage between muslim men and jew-christian women.

I have christians in my family, of course i'm friend with them

 

[Flankerl]

Plus Islam accept the mariage between muslim men and jew-christian women.

Which in fact is a method to spread Islam as the children would be raised as muslims.


This is really not a good argument to show how nice Islam is to other religions.

 

[Indian Iconoclast]

Peace Monotheist 101, and thanks!

Your lengthy answer to my quote still does not abnegate my stand on the subject of a friendship between Muslims and the People of the Books ie Ahlal Kitaabun as the Jews and The Christians Alyahouda Wannasaara as I have earlier entered on this thread, and that which I repeat here in below:~
"Well that question has been answered by the so called and so believed (by those that do believe in it) The Lectures of God. The believers of which are the so called Peaceful! (Read Muslims)

The Lectures very clearly command: OH THOSE THAT BELIEVE! MAKE NO FRIENDS OF THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS! FOR THE FRIENDSHIP OF SOME LEADS TO THE WAYS OF SOME! AND HE AMONGST YOU THAT BEFRIENDS THEM (JEWS AND CHRISTIANS) TODAY SHALL BE COUNTED VERILY AS ONE OF THEM (TOMORROW ON THE DOOMSDAY)! AND GOD INDEED DOES NOT LEAD THE SPREADERS OF DARKNESS (TO BLISS)!

ARABIC TRANSLITERATION: YA AIYYUHALLAZEENA AAMANOU! LAA TATTAKHAZAL YAHUDA WAN NASAARA! AULIYA'U BAA'DIN AULIYAA 'A BAA'D! FAMAN YATAWALLAHU MINKUM FA INNAHU MINHUM! INNALLAH LAA YAHDIL QAUMAZZAALIMEEN!

Thus the Lectures forbid the friendship of Jews and Christians! The only concession of association afforded to Jews and Christians by the Peaceful are that the chaste (Assuaalihaat), Jewish and Christian women that as such can be accepted as brides in marriage by the Peaceful! This concession came in the later stages of the Lectures when Muhammad, seeing the ravishing beauty of Safiya the widow of the slain Jewish chieftain murdered by his band of the Peaceful, fell as prime prize booty to him and he to impress her, offered her proper Peaceful wedding unlike his band of butchers who kept the Jewish women of that defeated Jewish village as their carnal slaves for rape at will and sold after for profit! And his show of a wedding to the Coptic Christian slave girl Mariah who was gifted to him by the Peaceful leader conquering Egypt, to impress of his magnanimity to the Coptics. Prior to these weddings. the Lectures (Surah Al Baqreh) forbade marriage of both Peaceful men and women to infidels like Jews and Christians! That concession (Surah Al Maaideh) still continues the earlier forbidding of marriage by Peaceful females to Jewish and Christian men.

Any friendship thus is not to be seen as REAL between the Peaceful and the Jews and the Christians in the name of the Worshiped the Merciful the Benevolent!"

Do you disagree to this stand, dear Monotheist101?

 

[Assad91]

Peace Monotheist 101, and thanks!

Your lengthy answer to my quote still does not abnegate my stand on the subject of a friendship between Muslims and the People of the Books ie Ahlal Kitaabun as the Jews and The Christians

Thank God the ramblings of an uneducated, self-taught "scholar", is not binding on anyone

 

[Indian Iconoclast]

Which in fact is a method to spread Islam as the children would be raised as muslims.


This is really not a good argument to show how nice Islam is to other religions.

Hey Flankerl! Kudos Mon Ami! I liked that punch of yours! Sure hit the Peaceful where it really hurts!:clap
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SHEMA YESROEL! ADUNAAI ELOHENNU! ADUNAAI EAHAAD!

 

[Indian Iconoclast]

thank god the ramblings of an uneducated, self-taught "scholar", is not binding on anyone

o boy! The wound on the rump though five days old, sure festers on!

 

[danieldemol]

Quranic verses referring to the righteous Jews and Christians:

Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth. (Quran 7:159)

And We caused Jesus, the son of Mary, to follow in the footsteps of those (earlier prophets), confirming the truth of whatever there still remained of the Torah; and We sent him the Gospel, wherein there was guidance and light, confirming the truth of whatever there still remained of the Torah, and as a guidance and admonition unto the God-conscious. (Quran 5:46)

I am posting the Yusuf Ali translation since it differs with your rendition;

"And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah."

 

[Monotheist 101]

Peace Monotheist 101, and thanks!

Your lengthy answer to my quote still does not abnegate my stand on the subject of a friendship between Muslims and the People of the Books ie Ahlal Kitaabun as the Jews and The Christians Alyahouda Wannasaara as I have earlier entered on this thread, and that which I repeat here in below:~
"Well that question has been answered by the so called and so believed (by those that do believe in it) The Lectures of God. The believers of which are the so called Peaceful! (Read Muslims)

The Lectures very clearly command: OH THOSE THAT BELIEVE! MAKE NO FRIENDS OF THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS! FOR THE FRIENDSHIP OF SOME LEADS TO THE WAYS OF SOME! AND HE AMONGST YOU THAT BEFRIENDS THEM (JEWS AND CHRISTIANS) TODAY SHALL BE COUNTED VERILY AS ONE OF THEM (TOMORROW ON THE DOOMSDAY)! AND GOD INDEED DOES NOT LEAD THE SPREADERS OF DARKNESS (TO BLISS)!

ARABIC TRANSLITERATION: YA AIYYUHALLAZEENA AAMANOU! LAA TATTAKHAZAL YAHUDA WAN NASAARA! AULIYA'U BAA'DIN AULIYAA 'A BAA'D! FAMAN YATAWALLAHU MINKUM FA INNAHU MINHUM! INNALLAH LAA YAHDIL QAUMAZZAALIMEEN!

Thus the Lectures forbid the friendship of Jews and Christians! The only concession of association afforded to Jews and Christians by the Peaceful are that the chaste (Assuaalihaat), Jewish and Christian women that as such can be accepted as brides in marriage by the Peaceful! This concession came in the later stages of the Lectures when Muhammad, seeing the ravishing beauty of Safiya the widow of the slain Jewish chieftain murdered by his band of the Peaceful, fell as prime prize booty to him and he to impress her, offered her proper Peaceful wedding unlike his band of butchers who kept the Jewish women of that defeated Jewish village as their carnal slaves for rape at will and sold after for profit! And his show of a wedding to the Coptic Christian slave girl Mariah who was gifted to him by the Peaceful leader conquering Egypt, to impress of his magnanimity to the Coptics. Prior to these weddings. the Lectures (Surah Al Baqreh) forbade marriage of both Peaceful men and women to infidels like Jews and Christians! That concession (Surah Al Maaideh) still continues the earlier forbidding of marriage by Peaceful females to Jewish and Christian men.

Any friendship thus is not to be seen as REAL between the Peaceful and the Jews and the Christians in the name of the Worshiped the Merciful the Benevolent!"

Do you disagree to this stand, dear Monotheist101?

Yes I do disagree..and see no further reason to reply to your misguided posts..good luck misrepresenting Islam..

Peace

 

[InformedIgnorance]

The strange thing is that the theological basis of (as well as philosophies and practices of) Islam and Judaism are far closer to each other than to Christianity, yet both seems to get along better with Christians (or indeed just about any other religion) than with each other.

Probably the main reason from the perspective of an outsider, is that most Christians moved out of the region, living on top of eachother with contesting claims to holy sites and philosophies of how to live is bound to exacerbate even the smallest niggling difference until it seems an insurmountable, intractable challenge all the while internalizing it and making it more and more personal. Certainly not then helped by a history of living in close proximity with all the conflicts that such a thing brings in terms of fights for land and resources, compounded by generations of pay back....

If Jews and Muslims hadnt lived in eachother's back pockets (particularly since the early 20th century, but even so far back as the mid 17th), they would probably be quite closely allied due to the similarity of their views of the world (as perceived through the theological and/or cultural component of their world view which would be relatively similar) even in geopolitical matters.

 

[metis]

I'm gonna start off this thread with a personal experience, which will lead to a few questions in regards to whether you've had any similar experiences.

I'm a retired anthropologist who was originally brought up in a fundamentalist church that taught about the evils of "evilution", also teaching us that one had to "believe in Jesus as your personal savior" in order to be "saved". Even in high school I had problems with both those approaches, but I still kept very active in my church.

However, when in my undergraduate years at college, I got into anthropology during my junior year and went nuts over it for the next several years. Every optional class I took in my undergrad work was in anthropology, and almost all my classes in my graduate work was in that subject as well. Anyhow, to the point.

When studying cultural anthropology, which most of my classwork was in, one studies religion as one of the five basic institutions that all societies have (the others being family, political, economic, and education), and this was quite an eye-opener for me. One quickly learns that what is acceptable in one religion may not at all be acceptable in another. For example, one could go all the way with not killing any animal life (Jainism) all the way to those that had human sacrifices as part of their ritual (Mayans, for example).

But the effect of these studies is that it becomes almost impossible to accept the "my way or the highway" approach to any specific religion. Every single anthropologist that I know does not accept that approach, and for those that may remain affiliated with a religion, such as I am, we tend to not be good in the area of just accepting any kind of narrow doctrine.

IOW, anthropologists tend to make lousy theists, and I'll be the first to admit that as I'm pretty much non-theistic.

OK, have any of you gone through anything even somewhat familiar with what I have? Did you stay affiliated? How did the rest of your family react, especially if you were brought up in a particular faith? Any other experiences that you can share?

 

[RabbiO]

M-

Your query might be better as a separate thread. Those who have no interest in whether Jews and Muslims should be friends or enemies might miss the opportunity to contribute based on the narrower focus encompassed in the title of the current thread.

Peter

 

[metis]

M-

Your query might be better as a separate thread. Those who have no interest in whether Jews and Muslims should be friends or enemies might miss the opportunity to contribute based on the narrower focus encompassed in the title of the current thread.

Peter

Thanks Peter, but I have no idea how it ended up in this forum, so I must have brain farted somewhere. I'm gonna cut & paste it to another forum, so I hope the powers-that-be allow me to do that.

Shalom, and I hope you enjoyed the holidays and helped others do it as well.

Vern