JHVH+ALLAH+GOD the father in Heaven= The real "trinity"

[Katzpur]

Herasy is a legitimate charge as it pertains to Roman Catholic Doctrine. Mormons do not find Jesus Christ as being devine or being God, and by Roman Catholic Standards are a Herasy religion. Would not the Arius sect be practicing Herasy by Roman Catholic Standards?

Sorry to disappoint you, but Mormons most definitely do believe Jesus Christ to be divine and to rightly be called "God." We just don't believe He is the same individual as God the Father. By the way, you really ought to learn to spell. In a three-sentence post, you managed to misspell two rather easy words: "heresy" and "divine."

 

[Katzpur]

Many cults are derived from Christianity, and claim to be Christians, like Mormoms and Jehovah's Witnesses. There are three test that will distingush a Herasy cult from christianity:

1.) a cult rejects the devinity of Jesus Christ

2.) The elders have "secret" knowledge supplement to the Bible

3.) performing tasks for the church equals faith.

And who, exactly made up this particular "test"? You may believe Mormonism to be a cult, but I can assure you that I, as a Mormon, am every bit a much a Christian as you are. You are clearly one of those people who blithely throw out the word "cult" to mean nothing more than the church down the street from yours that you don't like. I'll tell you right now that that's not going to fly here on Religious Forums. This is not a fundamentalist Christian website and the staff here won't put up with that kind of mud-slinging for very long.

 

[ebgebg]

And who, exactly made up this particular "test"? You may believe Mormonism to be a cult, but I can assure you that I, as a Mormon, am every bit a much a Christian as you are. You are clearly one of those people who blithely throw out the word "cult" to mean nothing more than the church down the street from yours that you don't like. I'll tell you right now that that's not going to fly here on Religious Forums. This is not a fundamentalist Christian website and the staff here won't put up with that kind of mud-slinging for very long.

Sorry, I didn't know that mormons accepted the deity of christ as the roman catholics do?

 

[Katzpur]

Sorry, I didn't know that mormons accepted the deity of christ as the roman catholics do?

Apology accepted. And I'm sorry to have been so curt. I believe (but am not sure) that Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe Jesus was divine.

 

[ebgebg]

Apology accepted. And I'm sorry to have been so curt. I believe (but am not sure) that Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe Jesus was divine.

So, Mormons don't believe in the deity of christ contrary to roman catholic doctrine? What about the book of mormons...is that required reading and wouldn't that be a supplement to bible reading?

 

[JayJayDee]

I'm trying to support an understanding of God that could enable Jews, Christians, and Muslims to live peacefully in their own lands; in otherwords anti-armageddonism.

It's a nice thought but the scriptures themselves tell us it will never happen.

Prophesy is history written in advance so what the Bible says will happen is a foregone conclusion that nothing will change.
Armageddon is coming and there is nothing that anyone can do to stop it. (Rev 16:15, 16)

The problem has always been the same....humans disagree on so many things.....some claim to be right and that all others must be wrong. Wars are fought over religious differences and hate is cultivated so much more than love.People are forced to comply with religious laws they don't agree with, for fear of reprisals. God does not want this kind of worship. If it does not come from the heart, it is not worth having.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what any of us thinks of how others worship...it matters only what God thinks....what He accepts.

If the scriptures tell us that the greatest tribulation in all human history is just ahead of us, (Matt 24:21) then we should take note. Jesus tells us that a situation like the "days of Noah" are going to be repeated. (Matt 24:36-39)
A warning is being given to all of earth's inhabitants right now, to get their act together and worship the true God in the way that he approves.

For Jews and Muslims, there has always been bloodshed, so they see nothing wrong with that.
For Christians, Jesus made it clear that he was promoting peace, not war. Christianity was to be different. But is that what we see?

All those who have blood on their hands are like those in ancient Israel who took it upon themselves to wage war without God's sanction.

When you lift up your hands in prayer, I will refuse to look at you; even if you offer countless prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood. “Wash yourselves. Cleanse yourselves.
Remove your evil deeds from My sight. Stop doing evil." (Isa 1:15, 16 Holman)

Those who love violence are hated by God. (Psalm 11:5)

Jesus taught us to 'love our enemies', so I believe that the true servants of God will be noted for their peaceful state in a violently divided world. (2 Pet 3:11-14) They will be outstandingly different.

 

[JayJayDee]

Apology accepted. And I'm sorry to have been so curt. I believe (but am not sure) that Jehovah's Witnesses don't believe Jesus was divine.

Jehovah's Witnesses do believe that Jesus was divine...we just don't believe he is Almighty God.

There are many gods who are not Jehovah.

"Indeed, even though there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as in fact there are many gods and many lords— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." (1 Cor 8:5, 6 NRSVCE)

 

[Katzpur]

So, Mormons don't believe in the deity of christ contrary to roman catholic doctrine?

We do believe in the deity of Christ.

What about the book of mormons...is that required reading and wouldn't that be a supplement to bible reading?

I'm not sure what you mean by "required reading" as I've never heard it put quite that way. Our official canon is comprised of The Holy Bible (we generally use the KJV), The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price.

 

[Katzpur]

Jehovah's Witnesses do believe that Jesus was divine...we just don't believe he is Almighty God.

Thank you for the clarification. I wasn't absolutely sure. Would you say then, that Jehovah's Witnesses would say that Jesus is "a god" but not "God"?

 

[Sha'irullah]

The only true trinity is Matter, Energy and Cosmos. These three things make up the universe and that is the way it will always be

 

[Salek Atesh]

Herasy is deny Jesus Christ is God...not worshipping the incarnation of God in Jesus Christ. Roman Catholic Doctrine is based on the Trinity of Father, Son, and the Holy Spririt as being the same. As a Christian you can't worship the God the Father without worshiping at the same time God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Alright interesting. So here's another theoretical. Even if I don't believe in two-thirds of the trinity, they are all the same, correct?? So if I pray to the one-third I do believe in, is that not worshiping the whole three??

And again I'd like my question asked. Arians Christians, yay or nay?? Sorry if you feel you've answered it, perhaps you did and I'm not seeing it in what you wrote.

 

[ebgebg]

Worship is taken by God...it's not given by you. God accepts your worship based on his judgement...it's not an automatic acceptance based solely on the action on your part. It's up to God if he accepts your worship. Look at Cain and Abel...God did not accept Cain's worship, but did accept Abel's worship. Cain was jealous and murdered Abel. Is worshipping 1/3 the trinity only worshiping God 30%? Would a "Jealous" God defined in the 10 commandments demand 100% worship like Abel's worship and not a defiant effort like Cain's worship?

Don't Mormons believe Jesus the man became deity after his death, and was not deity before his death? But if God is the same in the old and new testiment, then the trinity can't change between the old and new testiment. The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants and The Pearl of Great Price are not those "extra readings to understand the bible? Can't I just send the bible to say a place like "Africa" without the rest of those books, and the bible can still be understood without supplement material?

Arialns Christians practice Heresy as by roman catholic standards...as do mormons and J.W.

 

[ebgebg]

Sorry to disappoint you, but Mormons most definitely do believe Jesus Christ to be divine and to rightly be called "God." We just don't believe He is the same individual as God the Father. By the way, you really ought to learn to spell. In a three-sentence post, you managed to misspell two rather easy words: "heresy" and "divine."

So, do mormons find Jesus to be divine before or after his death? Was he a man that was divine during conception in Mary's womb, or was he a man that obtained divinity after his death?

 

[Lyndon]

So in the Old Testament the Jews were all going to hell because the only worshiped God in Heaven, and not Jesus??? And the whole rest of the world went to hell because they had never heard of Jesus even though he hadn't been born yet???

 

[JayJayDee]

Thank you for the clarification. I wasn't absolutely sure. Would you say then, that Jehovah's Witnesses would say that Jesus is "a god" but not "God"?

Jesus is what he called himself..."the son of God". Being a son precludes him from being his own Father.
He was "with" his Father "in the beginning" (an eternal being has no beginning) and John 1:18 calls him "the only begotten god".

Interesting translation of John 1:18 in the KJV...

"No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

Here is a fiddling with bias towards the trinity. The "only begotten Son" in this verse is incorrect.
It is theos (god) in the Greek, not son.
If they translated "son" for "theos" in John 1:1, then it should read "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was the Son''.....changes things a bit, doesn't it? You will notice also that verse 18 says that "no man has ever seen God at any time", yet many people saw Jesus.

Since Almighty God is eternal, he cannot be begotten. One who is begotten is brought into existence by the one begetting him.
Jesus is a creation of his Father...a unique being who shared a loving relationship with his Father before anything else was brought into existence. (Col 1:15, 16; Prov 8:22, 30)

He is God-like, existing in the same form as his Father i.e. a spirit. That makes him a god (which simply means "mighty or powerful one")
Not once in all of scripture is he called "Almighty".

 

[Godobeyer]

Many cults are derived from Christianity, and claim to be Christians, like Mormoms and Jehovah's Witnesses. There are three test that will distingush a Herasy cult from christianity:

1.) a cult rejects the devinity of Jesus Christ

2.) The elders have "secret" knowledge supplement to the Bible

3.) performing tasks for the church equals faith.

Yes, the Jews rejected Jesus...but why was the jewish nation established in the first place by new testiment standards? Isn't it also interesting that a Roman citizen, greek educated, and Jew named Paul wrote almost half of the new testiment. By the history of the Jewish nation being conquered... synagogues were established through out Paul's time so that he could travel the roads of the Roman empire and preach about Jesus Christ in the synagogues through out the known world. Isn't it intersting that synagogues were established in the known world just as Paul started his ministry? And he was Greek educated and a Roman Citizen which was very special. Churches were derived from the synagogues.

hello ebgebg !!

Muslims recognize the Judaism and Christianity as God religions , but we reject the contian of Torah or Gospel as corrupted/edited by hand of man .

Jews reject both Islam and Christianity and reject the contian of Quran and Gospels

Christianity recognize the Judaism as religion of God and accept Torah, and reject Islam as religion of God and Quran


Romans and Jews fought Jesus (pbuh) and his religion , then about 400 years the Chruch decide to order/fix the Christianity by Chosen the four Gospels , from many others called fake .

Paul was most enemy of Jesus (pbuh) , what the garanty that Jesus (pbuh) came to him instead of came to his followers ?

Why Jesus (pbuh) did not came again by his flesh to all people , why Just Paul and some others as inspiration,because he could .

From my opinion the Christianity is linked for some Christians to Judaism , so it's about following religion "Christianity" and followed religion"Judaism".

that's why you find some Christains support the Jews in Israel , because they (christians) believe that Jesus (pbuh) will come back to Jews again , (NOT for Christians) .

 

[JayJayDee]

So in the Old Testament the Jews were all going to hell because the only worshiped God in Heaven, and not Jesus??? And the whole rest of the world went to hell because they had never heard of Jesus even though he hadn't been born yet???

LOL, I don't get it either.

You have to be a Christian to go to heaven.....so where are all the pre-Christian men and women of faith? What about all those who lived and died without ever having heard of God or his Christ?
The Bible says that no one went to heaven before Jesus, (John 3:13) so where did all of the rest of mankind go before then? The Jews knew, and they had no concept of going to heaven. They believed in resurrection back to life on earth.

God has a purpose for mankind and his earthly home that has not changed since the Garden of Eden.

Its not a difficult concept. Adam and his wife were given two choices....obey and keep living in paradise or disobey and die. They chose death, not only for themselves, but also for their children who would inherit their sinful genetics. (Rom 5:12)

God stepped in with a rescue plan. An atonement for Adam, with a life of equal value offered in exchange. A sinless life was forfeited and only another sinless life would balance the scales of God's justice. But no one was now sinless, so a life was brought into existence from outside the now imperfect human race. Jesus entered the world as God's most trusted servant, commissioned to save the world of mankind from Adam's willful and deliberate disobedience.

The price is paid, but not for everyone. There were qualifications attached. Only those who remained faithful and obedient to God's commands would qualify to inherit the blessing. Continuing life has been conditional since the beginning. All God has ever asked of his children is to trust him with their uncompromising obedience. As a loving Father, he has always had our best interests at heart.

There is no such place as "hell".....there never was. There is only life and death. Those who disqualify themselves from life have only one option....eternal death is the opposite of eternal life. Why would God keep the wicked in existence only to torture them? That would make him a fiend and it would also make a mockery of his justice.

That is not what the Bible teaches at all.

 

[Lyndon]

Are you really saying you have to be a Christian to go to heaven, because I cannot possibly accept that.

My Buddhist religion teaches there are untold multiple heavens, earths, and hells. and that the hells vastly outnumber the heavens. I can believe there is a heaven for Christians only, or a section of heaven. But I cannot possibly accept or believe in a God that is so conservative that He only accepts one religion, My God is the God of everyone, and wants the best for everyone, not just Christians.

 

[JayJayDee]

Are you really saying you have to be a Christian to go to heaven, because I cannot possibly accept that.

I guess you have to understand that God never intended for humans to go to heaven in the first place. He has all the children he needs in heaven...all of them created as spirit creatures, in his likeness.

Humans were given a different realm...they were created as mortal beings in a material world where external things were needed in order for life to continue. There was no talk of heaven or hell when God instructed Adam. He was told that there was only one cause of death....disobedience. Not heaven, not hell, just obey and live...disobey and die. The rest is filled in by demonically inspired human imagination.

My Buddhist religion teaches there are untold multiple heavens, earths, and hells. and that the hells vastly outnumber the heavens. I can believe there is a heaven for Christians only, or a section of heaven. But I cannot possibly accept or believe in a God that is so conservative that He only accepts one religion, My God is the God of everyone, and wants the best for everyone, not just Christians.

I have a big picture that rules out any other way to life other than through Jesus Christ. He is "the way, the truth and the life ...no one come to the Father except through him". You can choose not to believe that, but I believe that there is one God who had one purpose for putting us here....that purpose got derailed temporarily.....but it never went away.

A savior was promised and a chosen "few" from the earth were to be taken to heaven to make up a governing arrangement to rule over earthly subjects. (Rev 21:1-5) They were to be "kings and priests" (Rev 20:6) so kings need subjects and priests need sinners to intercede for. Those who go to heaven are no longer sinners and kings do not rule one another.

Earth is our home and God designed us to live on it forever.....this will yet be realized. (Eccl 1:4)

All who have lived and died in times past have paid sin's wages and thanks to Jesus' sacrifice will be resurrected back to life on a cleansed earth. There is no heaven or hell as opposite destinations. There never was. Those who have died, sleep. There is no conscious existence in the grave. (Eccl 9:5, 6, 10) Like Lazarus, they sleep in their tombs. (John 11:11-14)
Jesus will awaken them and they will be taught Jehovah's ways (John 5:28, 29)

Earth was never designed as a training ground for heaven.

 

[Lyndon]

Thank you, this is Jehovah's Witnesses teaching, correct?? Very interesting, I believe heaven will be on earth too. But I also believe in other inhabited planets,