Joel Osteen, con artist

[Storm]

However, my deeply Christian mother sent a lot of money to Focus on The Family, in return my father had to deal with a lot of late notices from bill collectors.

1) That strikes me too dissimilar to be an effective rebuttal.
2) I'm not denying that some people do it. I'm saying such gullibility isn't intrinsic to Christianity.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Really? I thought the funny thing was that Jesus was using a miniature cross to cover his crotch.

I just think it's sad that he's drowning and there's no one there to save him.

 

[tumbleweed41]

1) That strikes me too dissimilar to be an effective rebuttal.
2) I'm not denying that some people do it. I'm saying such gullibility isn't intrinsic to Christianity.

Sorry, not a rebuttal, more of a gripe.

 

[Beaudreaux]

This is a must see: YouTube - Big Butter Jesus by Heywood Banks

 

[Storm]

Sorry, not a rebuttal, more of a gripe.

LOL! And an understandable one at that! Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Imagist]

I just think it's sad that he's drowning and there's no one there to save him.

"You saved others, now why can't you save yourself?"

If I ever become a billionaire, I want to create a giant statue of the flying spaghetti monster.

 

[Beaudreaux]

This is a must see: YouTube - Big Butter Jesus by Heywood Banks

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

OK, since nobody else wants to answer I'll ask you: what's the con? Where's the lie?

I'm showing my personal bias but I don't believe that the preachers who reach this level of showmanship are truely in it for the people. They are in it for their own egos. True, some may believe in what they are selling but their priorities are geared towards the show, not the message. And then there are the others who are simply in it for the money. I don't know which side Osteen is on and don't care, he's a salesman not a preacher. Then again, I suppose most preachers are salesmen of a sort. I guess I just don't like that sort of salesman.

 

[Storm]

I'm showing my personal bias but I don't believe that the preachers who reach this level of showmanship are truely in it for the people. They are in it for their own egos. True, some may believe in what they are selling but their priorities are geared towards the show, not the message. And then there are the others who are simply in it for the money. I don't know which side Osteen is on and don't care, he's a salesman not a preacher. Then again, I suppose most preachers are salesmen of a sort. I guess I just don't like that sort of salesman.

Agreed, but I still don't see how it's a con.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Agreed, but I still don't see how it's a con.

I use the term pretty loosely myself. All salesman are con-artists, even if they aren't lying about their product. They are still spining it in the best possible light and glossing over or leaving out any negative aspects. This to me is the con.

Con in Con-Artist stands for confidence. A con-artists gains your confidence in order to gain your trust, thereby controling your actions. This is exactly what a salesman does, and, in fact, exactly what a preacher does too. It is just considered a good thing when the motivations of the con-artist are in your best interest.

 

[Storm]

I use the term pretty loosely myself. All salesman are con-artists, even if they aren't lying about their product. They are still spining it in the best possible light and glossing over or leaving out any negative aspects. This to me is the con.

Con in Con-Artist stands for confidence. A con-artists gains your confidence in order to gain your trust, thereby controling your actions. This is exactly what a salesman does, and, in fact, exactly what a preacher does too. It is just considered a good thing when the motivations of the con-artist are in your best interest.

OK. I wouldn't use it so loosely, myself, but that makes sense.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

OK. I wouldn't use it so loosely, myself, but that makes sense.

The English language can be so subjective.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Here's the con:

When Osteen is asked how much his church brings in, and what percentage of that money goes to him, and what percentage goes to charity, he won't answer.

And while he's not answering, he still maintains the toothy smile, the charm, etc. It's so obvious he's acting. No one continues to smile, and speak in hushed, reassuring tones exactly as they always do, while evading such a question, unless they are making a conscious effort to act that way.

What could be a more obvious giveaway?

His congregants believe, I am sure, that a lot of the money they give goes to church upkeep and charity. They assume it without questioning, because he gains their confidence.

He's a con-man, a huckster, a rascal.

 

[Imagist]

Here's the con:

When Osteen is asked how much his church brings in, and what percentage of that money goes to him, and what percentage goes to charity, he won't answer.

And while he's not answering, he still maintains the toothy smile, the charm, etc. It's so obvious he's acting. No one continues to smile, and speak in hushed, reassuring tones exactly as they always do, while evading such a question, unless they are making a conscious effort to act that way.

What could be a more obvious giveaway?

His congregants believe, I am sure, that a lot of the money they give goes to church upkeep and charity. They assume it without questioning, because he gains their confidence.

He's a con-man, a huckster, a rascal.

Again, you're assuming a lot from his silence. I agree that it's suspicious, but accusations require more than suspicion.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

accusations require more than suspicion.

Not true. Convictions require more than suspicion. Accusations can come from absolutely nothing.

 

[Smoke]

His congregants believe, I am sure, that a lot of the money they give goes to church upkeep and charity. They assume it without questioning, because he gains their confidence.

I doubt it. Followers of the prosperity movement think God wants his servants to be wealthy; they see wretched excess as a sign of God's favor.

I'm not saying their theology is at all profound or admirable, just that -- as preachers go -- I don't find Osteen anywhere near the most contemptible.

 

[Magic Man]

It wouldn't surprise me if Mr. Osteen didn't believe a word of the Bible. He could even be an atheist.

Actually, it would surprise me if he was really Christian.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I don't find Osteen anywhere near the most contemptible.

Me either. I don't even know if I find him contemptible at all. I don't really know much about him. All I know is that when I see him I feel kind of slimy and a bit nauseous. I get the same feeling after visiting a car dealership.

 

[rojse]

I don't see how he's a con artist, honestly. Scum, to be sure, exploiting people's faith, but where's the scam?

Purporting to give salvation and blessings in exchange for valuables is the scam.

 

[rojse]

My point is that you seemed to be saying there was something intrinsic to Christianity that makes people fall for crap like this. I don't think so.

No, it's probably more intrinsic to humanity.